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To: verga
>>And since we are the only Church that Jesus started<<

Nope. Can't possibly be. Jesus would never have started a church that includes paganism or a hierarchy of priests. Neither would He have a human "vicar". He sent the Holy Spirit not some guy that wears the hat warn by priests to the pagan fish god Dagon.

>>he told Peter that what ever he held bound would be bound in heaven as well.<<

Once again, dead wrong. The Greek tells us that it was what was already bound in heaven. The apostles were simply to enforce and teach what was already decided in heaven.

Catholics just seem to twist everything to suit their pagan beliefs.

384 posted on 11/30/2014 4:50:42 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear
Once again, dead wrong. The Greek tells us that it was what was already bound in heaven. The apostles were simply to enforce and teach what was already decided in heaven.

No, BINDING AND LOOSING (Hebrew, "asar we-hittir"; Aramean, "asar we-shera"):

Table of Contents

Rabbinical term for "forbidding and permitting." The expression "asar" (to bind herself by a bond) is used in the Bible (Num. xxx. 3 et seq.) for a vow which prevents one from using a thing. It implies binding an object by a powerful spell in order to prevent its use (see Targ. to Ps. lviii. 6; Shab. 81b, for "magic spell"). The corresponding Aramean "shera" and Hebrew "hittir" (for loosing the prohibitive spell) have no parallel in the Bible.

The power of binding and loosing was always claimed by the Pharisees. Under Queen Alexandra, the Pharisees, says Josephus ("B J." i, 5, § 2), "became the administrators of all public affairs so as to be empowered to banish and readmit whom they pleased, as well as to loose and to bind." This does not mean that, as the learned men, they merely decided what, according to the Law, was forbidden or allowed, but that they possessed and exercised the power of tying or untying a thing by the spell of their divine authority, just as they could, by the power vested in them, pronounce and revoke an anathema upon a person. The various schools had the power "to bind and to loose"; that is, to forbid and to permit (Ḥag. 3b); and they could bind any day by declaring it a fast-day (Meg. Ta'an. xxii.; Ta'an. 12a; Yer. Ned. i. 36c, d). This power and authority, vested in the rabbinical body of each age or in the Sanhedrin (see Authority), received its ratification and final sanction from the celestial court of justice (Sifra, Emor, ix.; Mak. 23b).

In the New Testament.

In this sense Jesus, when appointing his disciples to be his successors, used the familiar formula (Matt. xvi. 19, xviii. 18). By these words he virtually invested them with the same authority as that which he found belonging to the scribes and Pharisees who "bind heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but will not move them with one of their fingers"; that is, "loose them," as they have the power to do (Matt. xxiii. 2-4). In the same sense, in the second epistle of Clement to James II. ("Clementine Homilies," Introduction), Peter is represented as having appointed Clement as his successor, saying: "I communicate to him the power of binding and loosing so that, with respect to everything which he shall ordain in the earth, it shall be decreed in the heavens; for he shall bind what ought to be bound and loose what ought to be loosed as knowing the rule of the church." Quite different from this Judaic and ancient view of the apostolic power of binding and loosing is the one expressed in John xx. 23, where Jesus is represented as having said to his disciples after they had received the Holy Spirit: "Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained." It is this view which, adopted by Tertullian and all the church fathers, invested the head of the Christian Church with the power to forgive sins, the "clavis ordinis," "the key-power of the Church."

391 posted on 11/30/2014 5:07:33 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: CynicalBear

You have been told the truth, I can do no more. It is now up to the Holy Spirit to change your heart and mind.


397 posted on 11/30/2014 5:28:27 PM PST by verga (You anger Catholics by telling them a lie, you anger protestants by telling them the truth.)
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To: CynicalBear
Jesus would never have endorsed men like this, nor would He have allowed them to continue in their positions claiming to be His representatives on earth.

Top 10 Most Wicked Popes

http://listverse.com/2007/08/17/top-10-most-wicked-popes/

1. Liberius, reigned 352-66 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
2. Honorius I, reigned 625-638 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
3. Stephen VI, reigned 896-89 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
4. John XII, reigned 955-964 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
5. Benedict IX, reigned 1032-1048 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
6. Boniface VIII, reigned 1294-1303 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
7. Urban VI, reigned 1378-1389 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
8. Alexander VI, reigned 1492-1503 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
9. Leo X, reigned 1513-1521 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
10. Clement VII, reigned 1523-1524 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]

Top 10 Worst Popes in History

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-worst-popes-in-history.php

1. Pope Alexander VI (1431 – 1503)
2. Pope John XII (c. 937 – 964)
3. Pope Benedict IX (c. 1012 – 1065/85)
4. Pope Sergius III (? – 911)
5. Pope Stephen VI (? – 897)
6. Pope Julius III (1487 – 1555)
7. Pope Urban II (ca. 1035 – 1099)
8. Pope Clement VI (1291 – 1352)
9. Pope Leo X (1475 – 1521)
10. Pope Boniface VIII (c. 1235 – 1303)

NO way any organization with men like this allowed to be in charge is the actual body of Christ.

Jesus removed churches from the lampstand in Revelation 2&3 for far less serious charges than what those *popes* participated in.

402 posted on 11/30/2014 6:23:16 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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