Posted on 11/24/2014 1:07:14 PM PST by NYer
How do you make the claim they are FALSE??
What objective source are you getting this from?
Oh; I ACCEPT it wholeheartedly; NOT ignore!
And I take it at face value, and do NOT redefine words to my liking...
 'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, ' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.' 'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.' |
1 John 1:26-29
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
Sounds like 'sinless' Mary!
Boy, when you find a stumblingblock, you make it as big as a railcar. lol
You make a habit out of quoting out of context.
I have never claimed to have received a doctorate from Roy Gillaspie. I do not know where some of these "researchers" came up with this. Roy Gillaspie was simply a beloved teacher of God's Word and I have never said or implied any such thing. It is true that I have a policy of not publicly stating where I earned my doctorate because then "critics" cannot judge me by association. I have always publicly stated that my credentials are my ability to teach God's Word. To the extent that our Heavenly Father blesses me with the ability to clearly teach His Word then what higher ordination could there be? (http://www.shepherdschapel.com/answer-to-critics.htm)
Roy Gillaspie is:
He also mentions the Trinity in this section on answering his critics, but doesn't clear much up in his "Statement of Faith" concerning his teaching on this either.
Well that was a whole lot of nothing. Nothing about Biola in there, and not objective either.
BTW, that’s the page Wikipedia deemed unsubstantiated and had it removed. That’s pretty bad when even liberal Wikipedia knows it’s BS. lol
How is it a stumbling block to me? The only one doing any "stumbling" here is, apparently, YOU. Reading through this thread someone would think you aren't sure about your claim WRT the 7000 elect your teacher Arnold Murray has you convinced you are a part of - though, because he has died, he no longer even is (ironic?). You have vacillated between "7000" being a literal number to it NOT being literal. All I'm trying to do is pin you down on what you REALLY believe - is there going to be ONLY 7000 that do not succumb to the lies of the antichrist or will it be many, many more of the remnant than 7000 - which IS what Scripture says. Can you finally come to a decision on this? That's all I have been seeking.
Here's the expanded context which torpedoes your assertion "them" meant a whole bunch of people.
Genesis 1:
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
See bolded above. "Them" be Adam and Eve. Or are you implying Eve did not have dominion because she was a woman? Eve couldn't rope a steer?
It is not ridiculous. That is exactly how God literally revealed creation and the propagation of humanity. It only becomes 'ridiculous' when folks have to add to what is revealed to make a man-made theology as in the "Kenites" fit the Word.
I checked the KJV does not have your parenthetical information. Which is a clear demonstration, you have to add to Scriptures to make your theology of men fit.
You did not address the issue at hand. Do you deny the church will be ‘caught up’ at some time in history or is that figurative for you?
1 Thessalonians 4:
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.(KJV)
So Murray taught to toss these verses out of the 1 Thessalonians? Or are these verses for the 7000 only?
You're sure doing a lot of flailing for someone who claims to only listen to a teacher and disagree with him "10%" of the time. I'm not seeing much "objectivity" from you either! Here's some more:
To fully grasp the Shepherd’s Chapel delusion and how it took shape we must understand “Doctor” Arnold Murray’s connection to two white supremacist organizations called The Church of Jesus Christ and The Soldiers of the Cross and two prominent figures in the late 50’s: Roy Gillaspie and Kenneth Goff.
Goff and Gillaspie were very instrumental in the formation of the Christian Identity Movement and their financial backing was huge – Murray was simply a vessel for this new age racist theology…
Christian Identity is a bigoted theology espoused by many within the Aryan Nation, the KKK and every other type of white supremacist you can imagine. They believe that only the white people are the true Hebrews, God’s chosen… sound familiar?
In fact, Murray isn’t a “Doctor” at all unless you want to consider him a doctor of white supremacist theology — his ministry license was signed by Roy Gillaspie and Kenneth Goff.
Roy Gillaspie was the head pastor of the Church of Jesus Christ – a dyed in the wool Christian Identity organization. The church was located in California but there were several located around the U.S.
One of the organizations was in Arkansas – and guess who was the head pastor of that location? You guessed it! “Doctor” Arnold Murray. Seems our supremacist friends ordained Murray and sent him to spread the good news of white power in Arkansas.
In fact, Murray’s initial church, the satellite Church of Jesus Christ, eventually became THE SHEPHERD’S CHAPEL, and is in the same location as the original Christian Identity church un Gillaspie!
Kenneth Goff founded the seminary Soldier’s of the Cross, a training institute for the Christian Identity movement. This is where Murray received his training, this is where his so called “doctorate” comes from… what a farce!
He received it from a man (Goff) who described black civil rights protesters as: “seeking to submerge our culture and religious heritage under a flood of cannibalism, voodooism and beastly jungle sex orgies.”
In fact to this day Arkansas records show that a corporation known as the “Soldiers of the Cross” is doing business under the name of “The Shepherd’s Chapel” with Murray listed as the corporation’s agent. The property on which Shepherd’s Chapel resides is listed as property of the Soldiers of the Cross corporation…
What is going on here? Murray never told us about any of this, did he?
Around the time of the early 80’s it was time to for Murray to go mainstream with his Christian Identity doctrine… the rough racist edges of his white supremacist doctrine had to be smoothed out.
Have you ever wondered how Murray so early on could afford the satellite he commonly boasted about? I think now we can understand where the money came from to launch the Chapel into the limelight.
Goff and Gillaspie borrowed heavily from bigoted Mormon theology – this might explain why the Chapel teaching so closely parallels key tenets within Mormonism. They were obsessed with freemasonry and Pyramidology…
Murray has a book on his list to deal with Pyramidology. The book he offers is by E. Raymond Capt whose father was a high ranking clansman… birds of a feather flock together.
This is from Arnold Murray, answering his critics:
“I have never claimed to have received a doctorate from Roy Gillaspie. I do not know where some of these “researchers” came up with this. Roy Gillaspie was simply a beloved teacher of God’s Word and I have never said or implied any such thing. It is true that I have a policy of not publicly stating where I earned my doctorate because then “critics” cannot judge me by association (why would the do that? Oh, yeah, because of Goff). I have always publicly stated that my credentials are my ability to teach God’s Word. To the extent that our Heavenly Father blesses me with the ability to clearly teach His Word then what higher ordination could there be?” – Arnold Murray, answer to critics
God didn’t ordain Murray to teach the garbage that he did… what a load of religious bat guano!
Of course, Roy Gillaspie was the head pastor of the church you served under and you didn’t technically receive it from him but let me tell you what Murray doesn’t want to say: Kenneth Goff of the Soldiers of the Cross Training Institute issued the doctorate. Charlatans like to create the air of authority around themselves and ascribe titles to themselves like “Doctor”. Murray was a Doctor of lies, false religion and disinformation – he received his doctorate from hateful bigots who had no validity from the get go.
I have much more to say about these matters and the Christian Identity Movement but let this information sink in if you’re a chapel follower! Murray’s Connection to White Supremacist’s Gillaspie & Goff
Wow, I do believe you could hang on this the rest of your life. lol I first mentioned that it could be relative to population about 250 posts ago. I guess you missed it.
On the macro level I do as a fellow Christian. However as we peel the layers some friction will occur.
We would have to take every recorded miracle in the Scriptures (OT and NT) and examine them. Meaning by your statements, I could say (1) Oh yes see he believes exactly what is recorded in scriptures; yet I could also conclude from your comments (2) Oh, yes I see he leaves the option open to deny or confirm certain miracles.
Now to clarify even further...If you were a Thomist or Intelligent Design adherent, I would know with a good amount of confidence what you meant in your statements.
Also, if your clarification was thus: “some miracles God used the natural elements under His command to intervene and in others there is absolutely no natural explanation.”
Now IMO that would be Biblically observant as some people were healed with absolutely no natural explanation; yet some as in Hezekiah and Naaman were healed by God by a natural prescription.
This is getting quite bizarre. Romans 9-11 makes a clear distinction between spiritual and physical Israel and the Promises.
Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
God saved most of the best souls and most of the worst souls for this generation to go through Satan's tribulation, the best to stand for God, the worst to seal their fate.
LOL! Oh, honey, I have plenty of other things to occupy my time than your incoherent theology regarding the end-times remnant. You may have mentioned a "relative to population" rationalization earlier, but then you went right back to your assertion of ONLY 7000 and even expressed hope you would be among them! I could go back over this thread and quote the number of times you insisted a finite number of 7000 - even when others said it would be far MORE than that - then admitted it could be more only to go right back to stating it was 7000 again, but I DO have a life! I'm sure you'd like nothing more than for me to just drop it, but you shouldn't expect to state something and not have to defend yourself against a challenge. This IS the Religion Forum after all.
Here's a hint...if you misspeak, simply admit it. Don't double down. It only looks like desperation.
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