“Return of the Prodigal Son” (detail) by Murillo
Posted on 11/16/2014 1:42:01 PM PST by NYer
“Return of the Prodigal Son” (detail) by Murillo
In Acts 4, St. Peter delivers a powerful sermon. He concludes by saying, “There is no salvation through anyone else, nor is there any other name under heaven given to the human race by which we are to be saved.”
I have written before in these pages of the time when I was growing up in the southern part of the United States and how I would from time to time encounter young, protestant teens and adults who would excitedly take to the streets to witness for Christ.
Now for Catholics who may not be familiar with the phrase, “witnessing for Christ”, this was how they would refer to their efforts to evangelize and share their faith in Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior.
The conversation would often begin with me being asked, “Do you know Jesus?” or “Have you accepted Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior?” But the conversation would also frequently begin with the question, “Have you been saved?”
What in the world was a young, Catholic boy to make of this?
Of course I knew Jesus. And whether I understood the phraseology of the questions, yes, I knew that Jesus was a person; I received him in Holy Communion at least weekly; and I prayed to him. I knew he had come to save us and I sure hoped that I would be saved.
But the questions were still somewhat foreign to me. It seemed as if we had different understandings of the words being used. Inevitably, the discussion would lead to, “Do you know what you must do to be saved?”
The answer, I would be told, was that I must accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior and believe in (on) him. Then out came the bibles to prove what was being asserted. Words such as justification, salvation, and believing faith would be tossed back and forth; and occasionally, sanctification.
Prior to third grade, I did not know many Protestants except for family members on my father’s side; he was a Southern Baptist, who with my Catholic mother was raising a Catholic family in 1950s Mississippi.
While the state was overwhelmingly Protestant, we lived in a city that was, to my experience, almost totally Catholic, populated with first- and second-generation Irish, French, Slavic and southern European Catholics. My father was able to help me understand where these questions were coming from and to help me form answers true to my Catholic beliefs.
In my ministry as a deacon today, I still hear non-Catholics speak these words and also of “justification” in connection to “being saved.” What does the Church teach about justification and salvation? What must I do to be saved?
Justification is wholly the action and work of God to cleanse a person of Original and Personal Sin, restoring him to friendship with God. Original Sin and Personal Sin separated us from that friendship. We could not restore the friendship, but Jesus Christ could and did. Not only is the justified person restored to friendship, he is adopted and made a child of God, a member of the family of God which is his Church. This action (a grace of the Holy Spirit) is merited for us by Christ’s Passion, Death and Resurrection. [cf. CCC 1987 – 1995 and 2017 – 2020]
Justification is the state of being in habitual grace freely given by God to man. This grace that justifies and places one in this state is called sanctifying (or deifying) grace. It is supernatural because it is totally dependent upon God and cannot be earned (initiated) by man. The justified person is said to be in a state of [sanctifying] grace. [cf. CCC 1996 – 1998, 2005, and 2021]
Justification presupposes man’s free act of will to accept and cooperate with this grace. God does not force this action or state on man. Human freedom is a secondary, but, essential element.
It is received by a person’s faith in Jesus Christ through which he freely accepts God’s forgiveness and righteousness. Justification makes possible cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom. [cf. CCC 2002 – 2004]
Justification is the beginning of the sanctification of the inner person. Man’s sins are not merely overlooked by God, as Martin Luther taught, rather, the human person is cleansed and by his cooperation with the grace is made truly holy. Through faith in Jesus Christ, man stands in this grace and merits increased (is strengthened in) grace and moves in charity by continued good works (the practice of the human virtues) toward perfection in Christ. Our good works, on our own initiative, do not directly save us, but they can strengthen our relationship with Christ and lead us to grow in holiness. [cf. CCC 1995, 1999, 2006 – 2016]
This grace is habitual because it endures and persists until we forfeit it. Man can lose this sanctifying grace by freely and knowingly committing a sin involving grave matter (referred to as being subjectively guilty of a mortal sin). [cf. CCC 1856, 1859, 2000]
The Protestant friends of my youth would tell me that once I was saved, there was nothing I could do, no matter how terribly sinful, that could separate me from God and cause me to lose my salvation. Their belief is the doctrine of some Protestants known as, “Once Saved, Always Saved”. But the New Testament Scriptures are filled with warnings that support the Catholic teaching that salvation can be lost.
St. Paul, writing to believers in 1 Corinthians 9:27 testifies, “…I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.”
That this speaks to his concern about losing his salvation is made obvious by the passage that immediately follows in 1 Corinthians 10 where he warns believers about giving in to sin and human confidence. In verses 12 and 13 he writes, “Therefore, whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall. No trial has come to you but what is human. God is faithful and will not let you be tried beyond your strength; but with the trial he will also provide a way out, so that you may be able to bear it.”
If this is not enough to convince us, he writes to the believing Gentile Christians in Romans 11:17-21, “But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place and have come to share in the rich root of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. If you do boast, consider that you do not support the root; the root supports you. Indeed you will say, ‘Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.’ That is so. They were broken off because of unbelief, but you are there because of faith. So do not become haughty, but stand in awe. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.”
Thus, St. Paul teaches us in Philippians 2:12-13, “So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.”
It is initially received at [the Sacrament of] Baptism.
This marks the beginning (not the end) of a person’s conversion and sanctification, man’s free response to the invitation to the Divine life from God where he turns from sin and toward God. Should a person lose the [sanctifying] grace of justification, it can be restored through sacramental confession (Sacrament of Reconciliation). [cf. CCC 1856, 1992, 2020]
The answer is so simple we often overlook it, so do not look for a long answer here.
The justified person attains salvation if he dies in a state of Sanctifying Grace.
“Yes, I believe in Jesus and received his justifying (sanctifying) grace when I was baptized into his Church. Jesus saved me. And at those times when I have sinned gravely and lost this grace, I returned to the Lord to be cleansed again by him in the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession) where I again received his justifying grace.
“I am strengthened in my personal relationship with him by my worship of him and receiving him in Holy Communion at Mass; through my prayer, devotion and reading of the Scriptures; by my study of the teachings of the faith; and through my good works prepared beforehand by him for me to perform while in his grace.
“I have been saved, am being saved, and have supernatural hope that I will be saved. I believe this because the Church, established by Jesus, through which this grace flows to me, teaches me that this is so.”
Into the deep…
I repeat, you are free to believe what your particular denomination proclaims.
And I will continue to hold to my Catholic beliefs.
Amen! How anyone can think, much less teach, that the righteousness of Christ imputed to our account is somehow "imperfect" is ridiculous. We are not justified by our works, but by the blood of Jesus Christ which cleanses us from ALL sin. Jesus is our place of purgation, our place of cleansing from ALL sin. The law of Moses could never make us righteous, neither could the blood of bulls and goats offered upon the Mercy Seat in the Temple. BUT...
You are free to believe whatever you choose.
Sure everyone is.
The problem is, all the made up stuff of Catholicism isn’t going to do anyone a lick of good.
God revealed to us in Scripture what mankind needs for salvation. People certainly are free to exchange that for the doctrines of men, to the peril of their soul.
If you wish to put the catechism ahead of Scripture, it’s your prerogative.
But you can’t say you weren’t told.
Get back to me when some Catholics come to your church and try to force you to believe what we believe.
Was that St. Paul's answer when the jailkeeper asked:
The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized. The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole household. (Acts 16:29-34
Because, of course, NO Catholic has ever done that, right? I'm glad we aren't living in the middle ages when that was EXACTLY what Catholics did. But, putting that aside, this thread was opened by a Catholic to mock and belittle those who preach we CAN know we are saved. Should nobody be allowed to rebut that assertion? Should we just shut up and let people say whatever they want about our faith and not have a chance to speak what we believe is the truth?
Did anyone FORCE you to read this thread?
First, I hold only to what the word plainly states, not to analysts that are not even likely to be among Yeshua’s elect.
Of course it was before the final judgment; the final judgment is 1000 years after the passage in question, which is described to be plainly at the first resurrection, the only resurrection unto life, according to Yeshua. This would then have to be right after the last trump, so at that time all of the elect are in heaven for sure, for the wedding feast.
When Yeshua speaks a parable, it would be foolhardy to assume that it is set in any particular time, unless that parable deals with the first resurrection, like for example the parable of the virgins.
Paul’s references are to consciousness, which could be at any time. It doesn’t mean that one is immediately in heaven, since especially that is denied in other scripture.
All of the scriptures are one! If an interpretation would make a contradiction, that interpretation has to be incorrect.
.
And what Protestants are coming to the Catholic church trying to force Catholics what to believe
Does Catholics telling me I'm going to hell for not being Catholic, or the Catholic church telling me I'm going to hell for not being Catholic count?
Because that's what happens in real life and here on FR, and that's what the church teaches.
The only reason people aren't being forced to convert at the point of the sword, or under threat of torture and fire, is that the Catholic church has lost its political power to people who finally had the wherewithal to stand up to it.
But that hasn't prevented the church from anathema-ing those who disagree with it.
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Here are some links I've collected which help to give a broad biblical basis for "purgatory", for anyone interested in checking them out. (Freeper "boatbums" also made a point about "purgatory" in her post #56 saying, "I think many Catholics would be surprised to learn that there really is no consensus within their religion about Purgatory" (since it is not exhaustively described or documented) -- as, of course, "heaven" and "hell" also are not exhaustively described or documented -- but three of these links which I'm providing here (which contain the name "Jerry Walls", a Protestant scholar) illustrate that there is also not a real unanimous consensus among Protestants about "purgatory" either.)
Some Helpful Links About "Purgatory"
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Fascinating. Good luck believing this nonsense.
I read your analysis of what you think Scripture says and I gonna hold only to what the word plainly states, not to analysts that are not even likely to be among Yeshua’s elect.
The words "heaven" and "hell" certainly are in Scripture. The word "purgatory", though is NOT. There doesn't NEED to be unanimus consensus for Protestants on Purgatory since that dogma is REJECTED. Even the Orthodox reject it! My point is that if your religion is going to make something dogma, mandatory to be believed, invent "rules" for how to get people out and other associated doctrines like prayer to departed saints, the treasury of merit, Mary being used to get people out, etc. shouldn't it be expected to have some sort of detail figured out before it gets cemented as an infallible dogma??? Even the meager attempts to appeal to Scripture passages for proof texts is inadequate and it is already known that the Roman Catholic church says she doesn't NEED to rely upon God's word since truth is whatever they say it is.
Maybe that's just peachy fine for some people, but it isn't for me. I know that what God intends for us to believe about Him IS contained in His sacred word and it won't be dependent on some people centuries later finally getting around to figuring it out.
Except that even then it is not, but a morally incognizant infant (typically), or even a comatose person, becomes formally justified by his own holiness via sprinkling of water, possible even by a Prot.
Could you please post the verses here and present the exegesis to back up your conclusions?
Augustine on Final Preservation:
“But of such as these [the Elect] none perishes, because of all that the Father has given Him, He will lose none. John 6:39 Whoever, therefore, is of these does not perish at all; nor was any who perishes ever of these. For which reason it is said, They went out from among us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would certainly have continued with us. 1 John 2:19”. (Augustine, Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints)
“I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we persevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of God; and I call that the end by which is finished that life wherein alone there is peril of falling.” (Augustine, On the Perseverance of the Saints)
"Will any one dare to say that this perseverance is not the gift of God, and that so great a possession as this is ours in such wise that if any one have it the apostle could not say to him, 'For what hast thou which thou hast not received?'[ 2] since he has this in such a manner as that he has not received it?" To this, indeed, we are not able to deny, that perseverance in good, progressing even to the end, is also a great gift of God; and that it exists not save it come from Him of whom it is written, "Every best gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights." (Augustine, Treatise on Rebuke and Grace, Ch. 10)
"... the human will does not obtain grace by freedom, but obtains freedom by grace; when the feeling of delight has been imparted through. the same grace, the human will is formed to endure; it is strengthened with unconquerable fortitude; controlled by grace, it never will perish, but, if grace forsake it, it will straightway fall; by the Lord's free mercy it is converted to good, and once converted it perseveres in good; the direction of the human will toward good, and after direction its continuation in good, depend solely upon God's will, not upon any merit of man. Thus there is left to man such free will, if we please so to call it, as he elsewhere describes: that except through grace the will can neither be converted to God nor abide in God; and whatever it can do it is able to do only through grace. "(Augustine, Aurelius. Augustine's Writings on Grace and Free WIll (Kindle Locations 45-46). Monergism Books. Kindle Edition.)
Justification presupposes man’s free act of will to accept and cooperate with this grace. God does not force this action or state on man. Human freedom is a secondary, but, essential element.
Augustine teaches that salvation is by "man's free will," in the sense that God illuminates the heart, making it alive again, and with love irresistibly draws the sinner to salvation. In other words, God draws us willingly, but it is impossible for a blind man to be given sight and to not see the face of His God. IOW, this is not something that man can resist, nor can it be properly said to be "cooperation" in the Roman Catholic sense, that they earned it. Rather, it is by the will of God entirely, without the "willing" or "running" of man: More from Augustine on this topic here:
“And further, should any one be inclined to boast, not indeed of his works, but of the freedom of his will, as if the first merit belonged to him, this very liberty of good action being given to him as a reward he had earned, let him listen to this same preacher of grace, when he says: “For it is God which works in you, both to will and to do of His own good pleasure;” (Php 2:13) and in another place: “So, then, it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy.” (Rom 9:16) Now as, undoubtedly, if a man is of the age to use his reason, he cannot believe, hope, love, unless he will to do so, nor obtain the prize of the high calling of God unless he voluntarily run for it; in what sense is it not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy, except that, as it is written, “the preparation of the heart is from the Lord?” Otherwise, if it is said, “It is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy, because it is of both,” that is, both of the will of man and of the mercy of God, so that we are to understand the saying, “It is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy,” as if it meant the will of man alone is not sufficient, if the mercy of God go not with it—then it will follow that the mercy of God alone is not sufficient, if the will of man go not with it; and therefore, if we may rightly say, it is not of man that wills, but of God that shows mercy, because the will of man by itself is not enough, why may we not also rightly put it in the converse way: “It is not of God that shows mercy, but of man that wills,” because the mercy of God by itself does not suffice? Surely, if no Christian will dare to say this, “It is not of God that shows mercy, but of man that wills,” lest he should openly contradict the apostle, it follows that the true interpretation of the saying, “It is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy,” is that the whole work belongs to God, who both makes the will of man righteous, and thus prepares it for assistance, and assists it when it is prepared.” (Augustine, The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love, Ch. 32)
“And, moreover, who will be so foolish and blasphemous as to say that God cannot change the evil wills of men, whichever, whenever, and wheresoever He chooses, and direct them to what is good? But when He does this He does it of mercy; when He does it not, it is of justice that He does it not for “He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens.” And when the apostle said this, he was illustrating the grace of God, in connection with which he had just spoken of the twins in the womb of Rebecca, who “being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calls, it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.” And in reference to this matter he quotes another prophetic testimony: “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” But perceiving how what he had said might affect those who could not penetrate by their understanding the depth of this grace: “What shall we say then?” he says: “Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.” For it seems unjust that, in the absence of any merit or demerit, from good or evil works, God should love the one and hate the other. Now, if the apostle had wished us to understand that there were future good works of the one, and evil works of the other, which of course God foreknew, he would never have said, not of works, but, of future works, and in that way would have solved the difficulty, or rather there would then have been no difficulty to solve. As it is, however, after answering, God forbid; that is, God forbid that there should be unrighteousness with God; he goes on to prove that there is no unrighteousness in God’s doing this, and says: “For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” “ (Augustine, The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love, Chapter 98. Predestination to Eternal Life is Wholly of God’s Free Grace.)
"We know that God's grace is not given to all men . To those to whom it is given it is given neither according to the merits of works, nor according to the merits of the will, but by free grace. To those to whom it is not given we know that it is because of God's righteous judgment that it is not given." (Augustine, Treatise On Rebuke and Grace)
“But that world which God is in Christ reconciling unto Himself, which is saved by Christ, and has all its sins freely pardoned by Christ, has been chosen out of the world that is hostile, condemned, and defiled. For out of that mass, which has all perished in Adam, are formed the vessels of mercy, whereof that world of reconciliation is composed, that is hated by the world which belongeth to the vessels of wrath that are formed out of the same mass and fitted to destruction. Finally, after saying, “If ye were of the world, the world would love its own,” He immediately added, “But because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” And so these men were themselves also of that world, and, that they might no longer be of it, were chosen out of it, through no merit of their own, for no good works of theirs had preceded; and not by nature, which through free-will had become totally corrupted at its source: but gratuitously, that is, of actual grace. For He who chose the world out of the world, effected for Himself, instead of finding, what He should choose: for “there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace. And if by grace,” he adds, “then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.”” (Tractates on the Gospel of John, 15:17-19)
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Are you saying that all Protestants must reject "purgatory", as if that is a Protestant dogma?
Well, you might reject it, but it is certainly not rejected by Protestant Professor / Scholar "Dr. Jerry Walls", nor was it rejected by Protestant "C. S. Lewis" (and I suspect there are many other Protestant brothers and sisters as well who do not reject it, even though you do).
See this video, as well as the links to Jerry Walls other clips and book in post #70:
HBU [Houston Baptist University - Dr. Jerry Walls]: CS Lewis on Why Our Souls Demand Purgatory
We are saved from the wages of sin.
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You want me to type thousands and thousands of words for you, so that you don't have to click on a link?
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