When would be a good time for us to come by???
Posted on 11/13/2014 8:53:33 AM PST by greyfoxx39
As the new essay unintentionally hits the fan, Mormons are reeling and responding with their classic denials, claim of victim-hood and their typical repertoire of logical fallacies.
Soon, their favorite defender, the straw man argument will be in full regalia, culminating in a passive aggressive indirect platitude statement (such as doubt your doubts, you have to go around the BOM, etc.) in the next general conference to which members will cling to for life.
Already I have been contacted by members with their "straw man babies". So I have compiled a list of the quorum of the 15 straw men arguments that Mormons are making about this already:
1) It’s not that some girls were married “back then” at age 14. It’s that she was NOT married to Joseph, since he was married to another person who was not aware of the situation. 14 years old were by no means older back then. He had sex with his foster daughter, period. He has sex with the wives of men who he sent away on missions and made the women lie about their liaisons, full stop.
2) Joseph was forced to practice it by an angry angel. Joseph must have been one hell of seer to know to start practicing it before the revelation AND the angry angel came. It’s that none of the 40 women, suspiciously, including Emma, ever saw the angry angel. It's that he didn't have 40 wives, he had one, and 39 KNOWN affairs that he spend most of his time and efforts trying to conceal.
3) It’s not that the church is being "honest". It’s that there is a term for when before you are being honest, for 180+ years.
4) It’s not that some marriages MAY not have had sex, it’s that some did. It’s that some were married to other men and some were children. It’s that the ones that turned him down were destroyed and shunned. It’s that all were coerced or forced to practice it. It's that the church has, for the past 180 years, trying to collect, destroy, deny or file away any reference to these relationships being physical.
5) It’s not that it's OK because Emma accepted it and felt peace about it, it’s that Joseph got her best friend pregnant and did not tell Emma, and she in turn threw her pregnant friend down the stairs and she miscarried, maybe the peace came after that, or after she threw Fanny Algers on the street. Maybe the peace came after she left the church.
6) It’s not that people are demanding that Joseph smith be perfect, it’s that maybe a convicted con-man, polygamist, bank defrauder, fugitive, liar, pedophile, wife-thief, serial adulterer, plagiarist and murderer might not be the best person to trust with a story about an invisible gold book. it was Jesus when speaking on how to tell false prophets that said "by their fruits ye shall know them"...well, here's your sign.
7) It’s not that it was about raising children, or marrying a virgin, or being approved by the first wife, or about being more women than men or that it was OK after 1834…because NONE of those applied to Joseph.
8) It’s not that it is OK because “it was a long time ago”. It’s that it happened at all. It’s that those girls were children. It’s that it was a revelation and then he denied over and over and in May 1844 (he had 30+ wives by then) he offered to prove his accusers to be perjurers and to provide (falsified) affidavits.
9) It’s not OK because you have a testimony. It’s that your testimony is based on a fictitious character carefully created by the church media department. If you have a testimony, you don’t know the real Joseph.
10) It’s not about the church discontinuing the practice by the commandment of God. It was that they were forced to by the US government and therefore it shows that the church will change its history, doctrine, practices, and policies to make sure that the corporation survives.
11) It’s not that it is not practiced now. It’s that Gordon Hinckley lied on national TV a few years ago and said it was only practiced after they came out West and it was not doctrinal. Well, the thing is that an angel appearing 3 times is pretty doctrinal and so is The DOCTRINE and COVENANTS,which is canonized doctrine. It's that thousands of now ex-Mormons were excommunicated, attacked, gas-lighted, called names and shunned for even suggesting what these essays contain.
12) It’s not that it’s a fleck of history. It’s that thousands of children suffer in sexual relationships with adults in cults TODAY because of the practices and doctrines you cowardly failed to address, up until now, and which your founders taught as a requirement to enter heaven.
13) It’s not about polygamy; it’s about your church pretending that they are the defender of monogamous marriage, between one man and one woman as stating that this has always been so. It’s that you are stepping on the civil rights of others, just like you did those women, all in the name of religion. You can't claim those relationships to be marriages and at the same time, use your sudden love for the law, to deny other people their right to marry, so, pick a side.
14) It's not that the church has abandoned it. It’s that the concept of men forcing women and children into their bed using revelation is "a thing" in your doctrine. It’s about Warren Jeffs being JUST like Joseph Smith. He did not die an innocent lamb at the hands of evil men, he died because he slept with children and other men's wives, he died because he violated masonic oaths, he died because when his adultery was exposed by his former close associate, whose wife he tried to shag, he destroyed the printing press. It's that men can be sealed to more than one woman TODAY in the temple and women can't do the same.
15) It is not that the media and world does not understand Mormonism; it’s that you don’t understand Mormonism.
The Bible doesn’t speak to a LOT of things; but that doesn’t mean we should run out and do them.
The most PERFECT book (BoM) seems to have been INCORRECT!
There are quite a few BoM/D&C clashes.>>>>>>
Not near as much there are among protestant denominations.
well; I’ll leave THAT exercise up to the student.>>>>>>
Which is what is turning every thing upside down to begin with, that is the students who begin to think of them selves as teachers.
Sorry if a handful of ex-mormons and Christians decide to debate and discuss the merits of their doctrine upsets anyone. But if not on this forum, there are many others.
But I can not see it as having any thing to do with the gospel, as the gospel is preaching the truth rather than exposing what one perceives as untruth.
If you were discussing or debating with someone the “truth” of the “gospel” and they had claimed that they and they alone had “the fullness of the gospel” and that all others are apostate, how would you go about convincing them they are in error?
If you can’t see that discussions/debates with mormons is not like the same between other Christian faiths {trinity} then you’re already behind in the understanding. The terms and names may be the same or similar, but the meanings are completely different.
If you can’t see that discussions/debates with mormons is not like the same between other Christian faiths {trinity} then you’re already behind in the understanding.
I am sure i would have plenty to disagree with the Mormons about if it came up but i have worked with them and even lived with them and it never has.
I believe the anti Mormon threads are not a bad thing maybe
because it gets us into the scriptures to see what the word of God actually says and what it don`t actually say.
But if i have to judge if something is right or wrong i would rather hear it from some one who believes in it rather than some one who don`t.
1 Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable.
All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
Common sense was still in effect back then...
And then real life steps in.
MormonISM is a heresy: pure and simple.
Any Protestant 'differences' pale in comparison. (Most of them anyway... ;^)
When would be a good time for us to come by???
1 Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable.
All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
Common sense was still in effect back then...
20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils.
22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
MormonISM is a heresy: pure and simple.
When would be a good time for us to come by???
Oh boy...So a salesman who believes in his product is a better source of information than someone who bought the pitch, then the product and found it was lacking?
So if I lived it for a number of years, live with a devout member and have since left it, my experience is invalid in judging whether it is right or wrong?
bump
So if I lived it for a number of years, live with a devout member and have since left it, my experience is invalid in judging whether it is right or wrong?
If I was to read a thread concerning the history of Joseph Smiths wife`s from some one who was in favor of Mormonism versus some one against it I believe I could safely say it was about half way in between which means both sides involved lies.
Oh boy...So a salesman who believes in his product is a better source of information than someone who bought the pitch, then the product and found it was lacking?>>>>>>>>
Now there you go, opening up a forty five year old wound, I bought a car against the salesman’s advice and a rod started knocking before I got to where I was going.
His advice was for me to buy that old ugly car setting there because it was mechanically good, but no I would not have it.
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