Posted on 11/13/2014 8:53:33 AM PST by greyfoxx39
As the new essay unintentionally hits the fan, Mormons are reeling and responding with their classic denials, claim of victim-hood and their typical repertoire of logical fallacies.
Soon, their favorite defender, the straw man argument will be in full regalia, culminating in a passive aggressive indirect platitude statement (such as doubt your doubts, you have to go around the BOM, etc.) in the next general conference to which members will cling to for life.
Already I have been contacted by members with their "straw man babies". So I have compiled a list of the quorum of the 15 straw men arguments that Mormons are making about this already:
1) It’s not that some girls were married “back then” at age 14. It’s that she was NOT married to Joseph, since he was married to another person who was not aware of the situation. 14 years old were by no means older back then. He had sex with his foster daughter, period. He has sex with the wives of men who he sent away on missions and made the women lie about their liaisons, full stop.
2) Joseph was forced to practice it by an angry angel. Joseph must have been one hell of seer to know to start practicing it before the revelation AND the angry angel came. It’s that none of the 40 women, suspiciously, including Emma, ever saw the angry angel. It's that he didn't have 40 wives, he had one, and 39 KNOWN affairs that he spend most of his time and efforts trying to conceal.
3) It’s not that the church is being "honest". It’s that there is a term for when before you are being honest, for 180+ years.
4) It’s not that some marriages MAY not have had sex, it’s that some did. It’s that some were married to other men and some were children. It’s that the ones that turned him down were destroyed and shunned. It’s that all were coerced or forced to practice it. It's that the church has, for the past 180 years, trying to collect, destroy, deny or file away any reference to these relationships being physical.
5) It’s not that it's OK because Emma accepted it and felt peace about it, it’s that Joseph got her best friend pregnant and did not tell Emma, and she in turn threw her pregnant friend down the stairs and she miscarried, maybe the peace came after that, or after she threw Fanny Algers on the street. Maybe the peace came after she left the church.
6) It’s not that people are demanding that Joseph smith be perfect, it’s that maybe a convicted con-man, polygamist, bank defrauder, fugitive, liar, pedophile, wife-thief, serial adulterer, plagiarist and murderer might not be the best person to trust with a story about an invisible gold book. it was Jesus when speaking on how to tell false prophets that said "by their fruits ye shall know them"...well, here's your sign.
7) It’s not that it was about raising children, or marrying a virgin, or being approved by the first wife, or about being more women than men or that it was OK after 1834…because NONE of those applied to Joseph.
8) It’s not that it is OK because “it was a long time ago”. It’s that it happened at all. It’s that those girls were children. It’s that it was a revelation and then he denied over and over and in May 1844 (he had 30+ wives by then) he offered to prove his accusers to be perjurers and to provide (falsified) affidavits.
9) It’s not OK because you have a testimony. It’s that your testimony is based on a fictitious character carefully created by the church media department. If you have a testimony, you don’t know the real Joseph.
10) It’s not about the church discontinuing the practice by the commandment of God. It was that they were forced to by the US government and therefore it shows that the church will change its history, doctrine, practices, and policies to make sure that the corporation survives.
11) It’s not that it is not practiced now. It’s that Gordon Hinckley lied on national TV a few years ago and said it was only practiced after they came out West and it was not doctrinal. Well, the thing is that an angel appearing 3 times is pretty doctrinal and so is The DOCTRINE and COVENANTS,which is canonized doctrine. It's that thousands of now ex-Mormons were excommunicated, attacked, gas-lighted, called names and shunned for even suggesting what these essays contain.
12) It’s not that it’s a fleck of history. It’s that thousands of children suffer in sexual relationships with adults in cults TODAY because of the practices and doctrines you cowardly failed to address, up until now, and which your founders taught as a requirement to enter heaven.
13) It’s not about polygamy; it’s about your church pretending that they are the defender of monogamous marriage, between one man and one woman as stating that this has always been so. It’s that you are stepping on the civil rights of others, just like you did those women, all in the name of religion. You can't claim those relationships to be marriages and at the same time, use your sudden love for the law, to deny other people their right to marry, so, pick a side.
14) It's not that the church has abandoned it. It’s that the concept of men forcing women and children into their bed using revelation is "a thing" in your doctrine. It’s about Warren Jeffs being JUST like Joseph Smith. He did not die an innocent lamb at the hands of evil men, he died because he slept with children and other men's wives, he died because he violated masonic oaths, he died because when his adultery was exposed by his former close associate, whose wife he tried to shag, he destroyed the printing press. It's that men can be sealed to more than one woman TODAY in the temple and women can't do the same.
15) It is not that the media and world does not understand Mormonism; it’s that you don’t understand Mormonism.
Oooops!
You said...
That's a bit of a giveaway around here.
The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.
|
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541
Joseph Smith |
I don’t understand. Substitute belief system if you wish.
Shouldn't you be asking him(?)
So if the representatives are representing us it means the majority are excepting sodomy
I think your premise is false. The government representation damned sure does NOT mean I accept a lot of what it is cramming down my throat. Example no. 1...Obama.
Yes. I explained that all ready.
I hadn’t seen posts by teppe when I asked that.
However...
Mormons in the US in the 20th and 21st century have generally been politically conservative and good citizens.
They are no better or no worse than any other groups.
What they DO have is very good PR at keeping the BAD things covered over.
Sometimes what I type isn't exactly what I'd been thinking.
Then you should be a bit more specific.
I was talking about your comment to me. You were judging my “Christianness” based on your incorrect inference from my post.
What?
Just THINK of all my good stuff you've missed; merely because you were not included in the To: box!
Your mission, Jim, should you choose to accept it, is to go back and re-read the thread.
As always should any member of your IMF force be caught or killed,
What is the breakdown on voting?
Catholics vote more Democrat. Should we condemn Catholicism for that?
I think the Mormon values can change. That is a concern.
For example, I think they will be OK with same sex marriage, for two reasons.
1) to get the gay market. If SSM is ok and legal, they can get a lot of gays to join.
2). SSM makes polygamy ok as well and a legal return could take place.
Nope; merely your 'rightly dividing' of the Word.
The unlikely nature of religious dogma isn’t what I talking about, actually, but as I said earlier, the fruit of the tree. Mormonism produces admirable adherents. Can we agree on that?
I KNOW they can; for they HAVE, over the years!
And yet they STILL insist that JS 'restored' Christianity.
What braggers!
No.
Utah has about 60% that claim to be Mormon; yet the Prison System is full.
I think the Mormon values can change. That is a concern.
For example, I think they will be OK with same sex marriage, for two reasons.
1) to get the gay market. If SSM is ok and legal, they can get a lot of gays to join. (NOTE: This is very important as a currently untapped source of tithing dollars!)
2). SSM makes polygamy ok as well and a legal return could take place.
Yep, see above on tithing dollars. Good summary!
I recall when the pressure to have black priests forced the president of the LDS (Kimball?) to undergo a revelation from God. How convenient. So, yes, they can change. I also recall, though, that the Catholic doctrine of the Assumption is a feature of modern times, a sign that change can happen in lots of places.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
