Posted on 11/13/2014 8:53:33 AM PST by greyfoxx39
As the new essay unintentionally hits the fan, Mormons are reeling and responding with their classic denials, claim of victim-hood and their typical repertoire of logical fallacies.
Soon, their favorite defender, the straw man argument will be in full regalia, culminating in a passive aggressive indirect platitude statement (such as doubt your doubts, you have to go around the BOM, etc.) in the next general conference to which members will cling to for life.
Already I have been contacted by members with their "straw man babies". So I have compiled a list of the quorum of the 15 straw men arguments that Mormons are making about this already:
1) Its not that some girls were married back then at age 14. Its that she was NOT married to Joseph, since he was married to another person who was not aware of the situation. 14 years old were by no means older back then. He had sex with his foster daughter, period. He has sex with the wives of men who he sent away on missions and made the women lie about their liaisons, full stop.
2) Joseph was forced to practice it by an angry angel. Joseph must have been one hell of seer to know to start practicing it before the revelation AND the angry angel came. Its that none of the 40 women, suspiciously, including Emma, ever saw the angry angel. It's that he didn't have 40 wives, he had one, and 39 KNOWN affairs that he spend most of his time and efforts trying to conceal.
3) Its not that the church is being "honest". Its that there is a term for when before you are being honest, for 180+ years.
4) Its not that some marriages MAY not have had sex, its that some did. Its that some were married to other men and some were children. Its that the ones that turned him down were destroyed and shunned. Its that all were coerced or forced to practice it. It's that the church has, for the past 180 years, trying to collect, destroy, deny or file away any reference to these relationships being physical.
5) Its not that it's OK because Emma accepted it and felt peace about it, its that Joseph got her best friend pregnant and did not tell Emma, and she in turn threw her pregnant friend down the stairs and she miscarried, maybe the peace came after that, or after she threw Fanny Algers on the street. Maybe the peace came after she left the church.
6) Its not that people are demanding that Joseph smith be perfect, its that maybe a convicted con-man, polygamist, bank defrauder, fugitive, liar, pedophile, wife-thief, serial adulterer, plagiarist and murderer might not be the best person to trust with a story about an invisible gold book. it was Jesus when speaking on how to tell false prophets that said "by their fruits ye shall know them"...well, here's your sign.
7) Its not that it was about raising children, or marrying a virgin, or being approved by the first wife, or about being more women than men or that it was OK after 1834 because NONE of those applied to Joseph.
8) Its not that it is OK because it was a long time ago. Its that it happened at all. Its that those girls were children. Its that it was a revelation and then he denied over and over and in May 1844 (he had 30+ wives by then) he offered to prove his accusers to be perjurers and to provide (falsified) affidavits.
9) Its not OK because you have a testimony. Its that your testimony is based on a fictitious character carefully created by the church media department. If you have a testimony, you dont know the real Joseph.
10) Its not about the church discontinuing the practice by the commandment of God. It was that they were forced to by the US government and therefore it shows that the church will change its history, doctrine, practices, and policies to make sure that the corporation survives.
11) Its not that it is not practiced now. Its that Gordon Hinckley lied on national TV a few years ago and said it was only practiced after they came out West and it was not doctrinal. Well, the thing is that an angel appearing 3 times is pretty doctrinal and so is The DOCTRINE and COVENANTS,which is canonized doctrine. It's that thousands of now ex-Mormons were excommunicated, attacked, gas-lighted, called names and shunned for even suggesting what these essays contain.
12) Its not that its a fleck of history. Its that thousands of children suffer in sexual relationships with adults in cults TODAY because of the practices and doctrines you cowardly failed to address, up until now, and which your founders taught as a requirement to enter heaven.
13) Its not about polygamy; its about your church pretending that they are the defender of monogamous marriage, between one man and one woman as stating that this has always been so. Its that you are stepping on the civil rights of others, just like you did those women, all in the name of religion. You can't claim those relationships to be marriages and at the same time, use your sudden love for the law, to deny other people their right to marry, so, pick a side.
14) It's not that the church has abandoned it. Its that the concept of men forcing women and children into their bed using revelation is "a thing" in your doctrine. Its about Warren Jeffs being JUST like Joseph Smith. He did not die an innocent lamb at the hands of evil men, he died because he slept with children and other men's wives, he died because he violated masonic oaths, he died because when his adultery was exposed by his former close associate, whose wife he tried to shag, he destroyed the printing press. It's that men can be sealed to more than one woman TODAY in the temple and women can't do the same.
15) It is not that the media and world does not understand Mormonism; its that you dont understand Mormonism.
They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.Who has made this so?Have I?Have this people?Have the world?No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.Can you pass without his inspection?No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224
And yet you are still here; tilting at the windmill.
I get the impression that false teachings about Chistianity do not bother you; but obsessing over them does.
You dont make sense.
If you can judge a tree by its fruits, then the product of Mormonism surely excels that of Islam both civilizationally and individually. So, yes, Mormonism is better than many other creeds. And I'm not a Mormon, far from it.
Your chosen religion was started by a proven conman; yet you stay in it.
What kind of scheme are you working against your fellow LDS members?
You should probably DEFINITIELY find another religion.
What does “teppe” mean?
—
Mormonism was polygamous. Some still practice it. It was part of their Theology, something about souls waiting for bodies to go into, so the idea was to have as many children as possible. That is my understanding of it.
They stopped being polygamous to be able to have Utah become a state. That’s my understanding of it.
Some, including Mitt Romney’s ancestors, went to Mexico to be able to continue polygamy. That’s my understanding of it.
Some adherents to Mormonism, outside or ostensibly outside, of LDS still practice polygamy. That’s my understanding of it.
Mormonism is a false religion with a non-Christian theology. That’s my understanding of it.
Mormons in the US in the 20th and 21st century have generally been politically conservative and good citizens. That’s my understanding of it.
One out three ain't bad...
Yes. So what?
I was quoting scripture. There is judging and then there is judging.
I was talking about judging. Not all the judging in the bible is the same.
In what way?
Hi Elsie,
I now see what teppe is.
I post via pings and don’t read all the posts in thread.
Now I see teppe’s posts.
Or Living Prophet® Number Two!
Szonian, Sentinal; I think this is for you...
A little bit judgmental; eh?
Discussions always take at least two.
What I don’t understand is just WHO are you accusing of “except”ing sodomy? Here is some “accepting” by the mormon church...
The Government has made same sex marriage legal.
So if the representatives are representing us it means the majority are excepting sodomy and at the same time polygamy is not legal which means the majority does not except it.
Hell!
Some of them downright EMBRACE it!!
Yes.
I now see teppe explicitly defending Mormonism.
I don’t think 61 is a defense of Mormonism.
Nor is anything I or Olog wrote a defense of Mormonism.
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