Seven Proofs for the Natural Immortality of the Human Soul

And the SOUL complex?

BTTT!

Thank you for your reply, but you are replying to things I did NOT state:

"soul" and "spirit" are not synonymous. A "soul", again based on scripture, is any living, breathing creature that has life whether it be animal or human.

I did NOT say "soul" and "spirit" are synonymous, only that the words in Scripture for "mortal" and "immortality" refer only to the condition of the body, never the soul or spirit.

I know it is common in English to speak of "immortal souls" but that usage is not very precise. I think part of the reason for this ambiguity is that in the Bible the word "soul" is used in different ways. So when you speak of "immortal souls" to negate the truth of Scripture that death is NOT the cessation of all activity, awareness and consciousness, you are still not being precise with the language of Scripture. What am suggesting to you on this point is that you clean up your language a little bit:

The words highlighted above are the same word translated soul earlier...the Hebrew "nepesh". It means basically a living breathing creature. There is no immortality to it unless one believes that whales and other living creatures also have immortal souls.

More to the point, regarding the nature of man you are mistakenly presupposing that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole;

And a biblical "soul" can die:
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
The souls is basically another term for life. And the opposite of life is death.

Your unstated assumptions seem to be that 'soul' equals physical life, and that 'life' refers to 'existence' while 'death' refers to 'nonexistence.' Yet the New Testament describes unbelievers while they were still existing in this world as 'dead' and believers as receiving 'life' at the moment of regeneration:

Luke 9:60
But He said to him, “Allow the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God.”
John 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Ephesians 2:1-5
2 And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, [d]indulging the desires of the flesh and of the [e]mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead [f]in our transgressions, made us alive together [g]with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
1 Timothy 5:6
But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives.
1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

The righteous do not begin to exist when they are regenerated and the unrighteous are described as 'dead' while they still exist in this world.

Again, with reference to "soul" you are confusing a part for the whole. Just because a living person is referred to in some instances as a soul does not mean that in every case the word 'soul' means merely a living, breathing creature and that death therefore means nonexistence.

What do you do in those instances where Scripture does not comport with your presuppositions and your definitions of the respective Scriptural terms? For example, in one case a soul refers to a corpse, which does not fit your definition. There is a another instance (James 1:6) that refers to a "two-souled" or "double-souled" man, which also does not fit your definition. (Is the "two-souled" man two living, breathing creatures?) How about the one where the "congregation was one soul"? I think that what you will probably do is try to find a rescuing device that will comport with your Sadducean presuppositions, and I would guess that it won't matter how far afield one has to go to find it or how out-of-context it is stretched.

Cordially,

No, we don't see that. We see that "Eternal" refers to ownership of WHO's fire it is, the Eternal Heavenly Father's.

mark

"And the SOUL complex?"

I think that subject has been well covered in comment #74.

Where in the Bible does the words "immortal soul" appear?

What does Ecclesiastes 12:7 tell us?

The FALSE DOCTRINE of the "immortality of the soul" tries to hide the GOD GIVERN TRUTH REVEALED in Romans 8:29; the TRUTH that the Catholic Church despises.
Take a VERY DETAILED LOOK at that verse.

"For whom He did foreknow,He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son,that He [Jesus Christ] might be the FIRSTBORN among MANY BRETHREN! "

So exactly WHAT is COMPLEX about the "soul" ?
Nothing.
The Bible is very clear about the soul.
It is the GREAT WHORE that tries to make God's Word complex!
Didn't you read Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 ?
What did you learn from Job 14:1-2 and Job 14:12-15?

Again, there is one who was much better at explaining this TO THE ONES WHO WANT TO LISTEN AND TO LEARN, and he did it here in this excerpt:

... God inspired David to write a great deal about the subject of life and death. David said,"Nevertheless man being in honor abideth not: He is like the beasts that perish ... like sheep they are laid in the grave [sheol] death shall feed upon them, and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave [sheol] from their dwelling. But God will redeem my soul [Hebrew nephesh—meaning LIFE!] from the power of the grave [notice the grave has POWER over the kind of 'life' connoted by the Hebrew word nephesh]: For He shall receive me. "Man that is in honor. and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish!" (Psalm 49:12-20). Because Almighty God reveals we human beings—the creation of His hands—are His children, and that we will be resurrected FROM THE DEAD, He inspired David to write,"Precious in the sight of the Eternal is the death of His saints! " (Psalms 116:15). There are many examples in the Bible about what happens at death! There is NO case in the Bible where the words "immortal soul" appear! There is a "spirit in man" mentioned in the Bible, which is a very profound subject, and which would demand an entire booklet to thoroughly explain. In brief, the "spirit in man"(mentioned by Job and the apostle Paul who talked of how God's Holy Spirit "witnesseth with our spirit" that we are the children of God) is that spiritual essence which lifts the mind of man to a level far above the mere brain of animals! The Bible clearly reveals that Almighty God is begetting CHILDREN! Even as human beings are not reproduced without life begetting life; male life uniting with female life; so Almighty God reveals that His Holy Spirit does not unite with mere flesh; but that there is a "spirit in man," very likely in the frontal lobes of the brain(which is why the "forehead" is mentioned so often) where our will power; our volition, decision-making capacity and our personality exists! When the Bible speaks, metaphorically, of "the heart" it is speaking of that portion of our human mind wherein our attitude; our CHARACTER resides! Recent scientific knowledge has revealed that the human brain is divided into many different parts. Some portions of the brain control such things as our coordination, equilibrium; our physical and athletic ability; other portions deal with our sensory perceptions such as the central nervous system, the eye, etc. Other portions deal with the memory, and the frontal lobes, behind the forehead of the human brain control the DECISION-MAKING part of the brain. Perhaps there is greater meaning in the symbolism of those who receive the "mark of the beast" in their foreheads (meaning willingly; with their own permission, acceptance and volition!) when one understands this simple truth! But this "spirit in man" is not "immortal"! God's Word says clearly God ONLY hath immortality! Man is revealed as being temporal, fleshly, carnal, physical—of the dust! He is said to perish and waste away! Yet, think about it deeply for a moment. Even as the pattern for all that you are was in a tiny, microscopic germ of life from your father, uniting with an egg of life from your mother; even as the "pattern" which was to determine your basic appearance, height, shape, color of eyes and hair, texture of skin, talents and abilities, was all miraculously contained in that microscopic bit of life, so Almighty God is building in our Christian lives a pattern, through the power of His Holy Spirit which can beget a "new creation in Christ" when in connection with the spirit in man! Even as your human father stamped you with his identity—gave you his NAME— so our heavenly Father is putting His own identity, His name, and His personality within His children! The false doctrine of the "immortality of the soul" CONCEALS THIS GREAT TRUTH ! If God is allowing you to understand deeper truths of His Word through this article then to Almighty God goes the credit! If God is revealing deeper truths to you, you should now turn to Romans the eighth chapter and read with greater understanding than ever before the entire chapter! Particularly, as you study this important chapter, read verse 29!"For whom He did foreknow,He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He [Jesus Christ!] might be the FIRSTBORN among MANY BRETHREN! " Yes, even as Jesus Christ was the first begotten among all human kind; He was also the first BORN from the dead! How plain! How simple! The greatest phenomenon we see around us is that of LIFE! We see the miraculous fact that life comes from preexisting life of the same kind; that life has the basic urge to perpetuate itself; that He produces like, kind reproduces after kind, and that we human beings, through love in marriage, reproduce after our own kind! Almighty God is reproducing after His kind!

Bottom line is; what we 'believe' about the SOUL or Spirit makes NO difference to our Salvation...

Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

1 John 3:21-23
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Oh, but it does.

I did NOT say "soul" and "spirit" are synonymous, only that the words in Scripture for "mortal" and "immortality" refer only to the condition of the body, never the soul or spirit.

Thank you again for kind reply and the opportunity to study. I assumed that by saying that only the body is mortal that you were stating that the soul is immortal. I stated some proofs that the "soul" is not immortal. Sorry if I misread that.

So when you speak of "immortal souls" to negate the truth of Scripture that death is NOT the cessation of all activity, awareness and consciousness, you are still not being precise with the language of Scripture.

Well scripture certainly seems to indicate that death is exactly that...

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share In anything done under the sun.

In fact death is compared to sleep multiple times...a cessation of conscious, aware activity.

Eph_5:14 Therefore He says: "Awake, you who sleep, Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light."

1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

1Co_15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—

There are many many more examples. All in all the clear message seems to be that we sleep in our graves until the return of Christ at which time, if we're Christian, are resurrected to eternal life.

Your unstated assumptions seem to be that 'soul' equals physical life, and that 'life' refers to 'existence' while 'death' refers to 'nonexistence.' Yet the New Testament describes unbelievers while they were still existing in this world as 'dead' and believers as receiving 'life' at the moment of regeneration:

I think we're operating within different frameworks. When I see the term "eternal life" and apply it to Christians I see a couple of things. First that eternal life is PROMISED to Christians and that true eternal lie occurs at the end of our faith, at the return of Christ:

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

Notice the language here. A hope, an inheritance that can't be corrupted (immortal), RESERVED in heaven. Something not yet here.

1Pe 1:5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Salvation is revealed in the last time, at the return of Christ.

1Pe 1:6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials,
1Pe 1:7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,
1Pe 1:8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
1Pe 1:9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

The end of faith is the salvation of our souls...our lives. Notice that faith (at least here) is the faith that we will be given eternal life, or salvation at the return of Christ.

And if it were just here that would be one thing. But it's repeated multiple times in much the same manner throughout scripture. One more example:

Luk 18:29 So He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or parents or brothers or wife or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God,
Luk 18:30 who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life.

So true life, eternal lie, is a future promise to Christians.

Your position (if I understand correctly) is that this eternal life is referring simply to the body and that our soul or spirit (your terms) are different matters. That they are in some way already eternal. We've seen that the english word "soul" is not immortal. In the new testament scriptures the word most often translated "soul" is the greek psuche (transliterated). It's the breath of life in both man and animal...basically the equivalent of the hebrew word. Mostly it's translated as soul. Sometimes as "life". But it's not eternal or immortal.

As for spirit, in the new testament the word most often translated as spirit is "pneuma" (again transliterated). It's used in reference to the holy spirit as well as for unclean spirits, or demons. In other words, it usually denotes a type of existence, a different type of "body" if you will then our mortal flesh. On a different plane, one which is invisible to us in general. Pneuma can also refer to wind..which denotes something of which it's effects can be felt but which in general is invisible to us.

In scripture, as far as I can tell, man never has a "spirit" other than the one given to Christians....the holy spirit.

Again it goes back to what Paul said:

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, "THE FIRST MAN ADAM BECAME A LIVING BEING." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Co 15:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

I also wanted to address "eternal life". In the verses you quoted where it mentioned "life", the term used was "zoe" which is life in general. However none of them say that Christians have ETERNAL life...or aionious zoe. It's an important distinction. Basically the scriptures are again affirming that we have eternal life promised to us. And that promise will be kept by God.

Somehow somewhere along the way modern Christianity has gotten the idea that we are already immortal..whether it be a soul or spirit. We do have a "soul" but it's not immortal. We CAN have a spirit..either the holy spirit of God OR possibly an unclean spirit that resides in us. But we are not MADE a an eternal spirit until the return of Christ.

Anyways I know this is long and yet incomplete so I apologize for that....

If the body and the soul are one and the same why does Christ say that someone can kill the body but not the soul?

How?

Every action we take ~ is based on WHAT we THINK.
So ~ it matters.

I assume you are talking about Greek word "psuche" since it's the ONLY word in the New Testament that is translated as "soul".
So how do you find that same Greek word "psuche" translated in Revelation 8:9 ?

"And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea,and had LIFE, died ; and the third part of the ships were destroyed."

105 Times in the New Testament, you'll find that same Greek word "psuche",

translated "soul" ONLY 58 times

but can also be rendered "life"

"mind"

"heart," "heartily," "us"

"you"

Again I say, someone much better at "proofs" than I, covered this subject long ago.
He wrote it this way:

... The Greek word psuche is the exact Greek rendering of the Hebrew word nephesh and is used in the same way throughout the New Testament. For example, psuche is used of the lower animals, just as you have seen nephesh used of lower life forms in the first chapter of the book of Genesis! In Revelation 8:9, the Greek word psuche (remember this is the ONLY word which is ever used for the word "soul" in the English language) is rendered "life. " Notice also Revelation 16:3, where lower life forms are spoken of, yet the word "soul" is used. Read that last scripture carefully! It describes one of the horrible plagues yet to fall upon the land and the sea, and says "every living soul DIED"! Here is one more New Testament proof that the word "soul" as it found its way into the English language means a being, or living thing, which can DIE! In this case, it is used of various forms of life(of which there are thousands) in the sea! The Greek word psuche is also used for an individual. On many occasions, in making out a flight plan when I was piloting a jet airplane, we would have to include the information of how many persons were aboard that flight. All airlines dispatchers do the same things. Oftentimes, many pilots calling in their flight plans would say they had so many "souls" on board, using the word interchangeably for individuals, or persons. When a newspaper headline speaks of so many "souls" being lost in the sinking of a ship, it is using the word in much the same way as it occurs 14 different times in the Bible!For proof, read Acts 2:41-43; 3:23; 7:14; 27:37; Romans 2:9; 13:1; 1 Corinthians 15:45; James 5:20; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:14; Revelation 6:9; 18:13; 20:4. In those passages, the Greek word psuche is used for the life of man, which can be destroyed, or lost. A classic example of where the translators have tampered with the English in translating from the Greek is found in Matthew 16:25 and 26. Notice the way it is rendered in the King James Version: "For whosoever will save his life [psuche] shall lose it; and whosoever will lose his life [psuche] for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul [psuche]? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul [psuche]?" Obviously, since the identical Greek word is used in both passages; and since it is rendered differently in verse 26 (soul) from the way it is used in verse 25 (life), it was a translator's decision as to changing the way he rendered this Greek word psuche in the two verses! To be honest, and to be fair with the word, it should have been rendered the same in both passages! Here, it is obvious the word should better be rendered "life, " just as it was rendered in verse 25! For, after all, it is your life you can lose—and what can you give in exchange for your LIFE? The point is,the Greek word psuche is capable of nearly as many applications as is the Hebrew word nephesh, and can even be used of man's moods, passions and feelings! The word psuche, for example, is translated "mind," "us," "you" "heart" and "heartily." By NO stretch of the imagination can this Greek word EVER connote anything which is immortal, or "extraphysical, " in the sense of being spiritual. The English word "soul" in the Old Testament is always taken from the Hebrew nephesh and does NOT mean anything immortal; just as the English word "soul" in the New Testament is taken from the Greek word psuche, and only means mortal, temporal, human physical MAN, who is subject to death.

There are many many more examples. All in all the clear message seems to be that we sleep in our graves until the return of Christ at which time, if we're Christian, are resurrected to eternal life.

Where is Christ now? When Paul refers to our body as an "earthly house" and a "tent", and says that while we are at home inside our bodies, we are absent from the Lord, and that he would rather depart and be with Christ, does that mean that Christ is in the ground where Paul would go to his grave?

Paul also said he knew someone who was caught up to the third heaven said that he did not know if the man who had this experience was in his body or out of his body. Was Paul on drugs or something?

When Jesus spoke of the abode of the dead and people there after death retaining their cognitive faculties such that they could recognize and speak to one another, was he speaking of something that had no connection to reality, was false and contrary to Scripture? Even if you think what Jesus taught in Luke 16 is merely figurative, or representative of something else, would Jesus teach something using an absurd example that had no connections with reality, was false and contrary to Scripture? That would be like Jesus saying that the Kingdom of Heaven is like a rock that a man threw in a cave and it grew up and became the greatest of all camels.

I think we're operating within different frameworks. When I see the term "eternal life" and apply it to Christians I see a couple of things. First that eternal life is PROMISED to Christians and that true eternal lie occurs at the end of our faith, at the return of Christ:

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

Notice the language here. A hope, an inheritance that can't be corrupted (immortal), RESERVED in heaven. Something not yet here.

1Pe 1:5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Salvation is revealed in the last time, at the return of Christ.

There are aspects of salvation that are past, present and future. The last time and the resurrection of our bodies are aspects of our salvation that are in the future. However, Scripture also speaks of eternal life in the present, as a present possession.

___________________

I also wanted to address "eternal life". In the verses you quoted where it mentioned "life", the term used was "zoe" which is life in general. However none of them say that Christians have ETERNAL life...or aionious zoe. It's an important distinction. also wanted to address "eternal life". In the verses you quoted where it mentioned "life", the term used was "zoe" which is life in general. However none of them say that Christians have ETERNAL life...or aionious zoe. It's an important distinction.

These do:

ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 11:25-261881 Westcott-Hort New Testament (WHNU)
25 ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
26 και πας ο ζων και πιστευων εις εμε ου μη αποθανη εις τον αιωνα πιστευεις τουτο
ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 3:361881 Westcott-Hort New Testament (WHNU)
36 ο πιστευων εις τον υιον εχει ζωην αιωνιον ο δε απειθων τω υιω ουκ οψεται ζωην αλλ η οργη του θεου μενει επ αυτον
ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 5:241881 Westcott-Hort New Testament (WHNU)
24 αμην αμην λεγω υμιν οτι ο τον λογον μου ακουων και πιστευων τω πεμψαντι με εχει ζωην αιωνιον και εις κρισιν ουκ ερχεται αλλα μεταβεβηκεν εκ του θανατου εις την ζωην
ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 6:471881 Westcott-Hort New Testament (WHNU)
47 αμην αμην λεγω υμιν ο πιστευων εχει ζωην αιωνιον
ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 10:281881 Westcott-Hort New Testament (WHNU)
28 καγω διδωμι αυτοις ζωην αιωνιον και ου μη απολωνται εις τον αιωνα και ουχ αρπασει τις αυτα εκ της χειρος μου
ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ Α΄ 5:11-131881 Westcott-Hort New Testament (WHNU)
11 και αυτη εστιν η μαρτυρια οτι ζωην αιωνιον εδωκεν ο θεος ημιν και αυτη η ζωη εν τω υιω αυτου εστιν
12 ο εχων τον υιον εχει την ζωην ο μη εχων τον υιον του θεου την ζωην ουκ εχει
13 ταυτα εγραψα υμιν ινα ειδητε οτι ζωην εχετε αιωνιον τοις πιστευουσιν εις το ονομα του υιου του θεου

_______________

In scripture, as far as I can tell, man never has a "spirit" other than the one given to Christians....the holy spirit.

I guess Paul didn't get the memo:

1 Corinthians 2:11 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

Cordially,

Don't forget the verses about a familiar spirit.

Also, don't forget Matthew 12:43-45, and Luke 11:14-28.

Every action we take ~ is based on WHAT we THINK.

Can you show both actions; based on what we think about the existence of the soul; that will make an impact on our salvation?

Ponder that yourself.
You already know the answer,
and your salvation is between you and Our Heavenly Father, ... and I shouldn't interfere.

Ponder that yourself.

Why?

You made the claim.

Produce.

>>Greek word psuche, and only means mortal, temporal, human physical MAN, who is subject to death.<<

So I guess you think Jesus was wrong. He said they were not the same.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul (psuché): but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I'm positive God knows better than you or your apostate teachers.

You just don't learn, do you?
I guess Isaiah 28:13 has to be represented for others to see, also.