Posted on 11/06/2014 2:29:33 PM PST by NYer
In June of this year, the largest Presbyterian denomination in America voted to allow their clergy to perform same-sex “marriages” within the church, thus joining the ranks of other Protestant denominations, such as the Evangelical Lutheran Church, Episcopalian Church, and United Church of Christ.
This “evolution” of theology and “modernizing” of church doctrine is a trend that I predict we’ll continue to see in non-Catholic Christian circles for years to come, and not just with marriage. Today, nearly all Protestant denominations support and even advocate the use of artificial birth control, and many allow at least some level of support for abortion.
Of course, not all Protestants are willing to “move with the times”, so to speak; there remains, especially among the more conservative groups, quite a bit of dissent. However, it cannot be denied that many modern day Protestant denominations are falling further into the depths of secularism.
While it pains me to see Christians turning their backs on the sanctity of life and marriage, I have to admit that whenever the media lights up with news of another Protestant church endorsing an otherwise wholly unchristian act, I find myself entirely unsurprised.
The reason for my utter lack of shock lies, interestingly enough, within two of the critical tenants of Protestant Theology: the doctrines of sola scriptura (scripture alone) and sola fide (faith alone).
As Catholics, the Bible is not our sole source of authority, nor was the Catholic Church based upon it. In fact, what we now call “The Bible” — the collected Old Testament and New Testament writings — was put together by the Church herself, and is meant to enrich and support our doctrine and Tradition.
(Consider too that the Gospel is the written testimony of the teachings of the apostles, which, due to apostolic tradition and the God-given teaching authority of the Church, precedes the written text. Thus, any authority of the Scriptures is derived from the recognition of the Church.)
Yet, the Protestant Reformation severed the Tradition from the Bible, and put all other authorities beneath it. By doing so, they created a type of religious relativism (unwittingly, I’m sure) that opened the door for an “anything goes” mentality. So long, of course, as it can be found — or not found — in the scriptures.
For years, sola scriptura was a major weapon against Catholic theology, claiming that our practices were either absent or directly forbidden by Sacred Scripture. However, since the latter part of the 20th century, the charges that “Jesus never said (x)” or “That’s not in the Bible” have turned on themselves and have now become, “Jesus never said (x) was wrong, so that means (x) must be okay.”
This idea blends well with many in my generation, the millennials, who wish to hold on to some shred of spirituality but cannot bring themselves to relinquish the desires of the flesh. It is also a base notion of “Progressive Christianity”, which is basically the feel-good parts of following Christ without any actual sacrifice.
The same problem goes for sola fide. Though the only place in the Bible where the words “faith” and “alone” appear next to one another is in James 2:24 (“See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone”), it still remains a significant tenant of Protestant Christianity. However, much like sola scriptura, it has seemingly evolved into an even more bastardized version of itself that states, “As long as I’m a good person and believe in Jesus, I’m okay.”
Now, understand, I’m not among the ilk who believe that Protestants can’t go to Heaven, though the path is significantly more challenging (and not in a “take up your cross” kind of way). I do believe, however, that Christianity was never meant go in this direction. And I certainly believe that, should things continue in the manner they’re going for the modern-day Protestants, they’ll eventually have nothing left to call Christian at all.
Of course, perhaps that’s the only logical conclusion Protestantism could possibly come to. It is, after all, a theologically incomplete Christianity; and perhaps that is why it has such difficulty standing the test of time. Consider the continuous splintering Protestantism has seen since the days of Luther, that continues today. Sooner or later, it will be dust; and displaced Christians will be left with two choices: return to Holy Catholic Church or give themselves to the world.
“How would you apply that if you didn’t compare what people say they believe to scripture?”
I am referring to “judging” in the eternal sense.
“And RCs themselves condemn those who do not believe in her form of endo-cannibalism.”
You are more like those you speak of than perhaps is obvious to you.
“Posting what scripture says concerning those who are destined to hell is not being judgemental.”
Again, posting scripture is one thing, presuming to think for God is quite another.
“So to say otherwise is proclaiming Him a liar.”
This debating tactic is amusing. “I’m on God’s team and you’re not”
Attempted theological bullying....lol.
....”it’s not your call, as far as judging what other people believe”....
It’s written...“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”....judge by the word of God, that is what it means to judge righteously...
The New Testament tells us to test ALL things. We are told to do this because it helps keep us away from what is false..... Paul said, “If anyone preaches another gospel let him be accursed”... Would anyone say to Paul’s face “your judging.”????
It’s amazing that the things which affect our spiritual life people say... “don’t judge.” ....and that’s a lie of the enemy of God just as was done in the garden...the dvil expected Eve not to judge what he was saying with what God had ‘already’ spoken.... She didn’t judge, and instead she and Adam were judged!
Interesting fact is that to tell people they are judgmental IS to judge them....when in reality what’s being said is that they’re asking us not to judge ‘by the word of God’ and to ignore any discernment God has asked us to do...as they would.....and this because they cannot deal with the Scripture proof given.
Heb. 5:12-14 Tells us.....“For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised ‘to discern’ both good and evil.”
I thought you could do better than that...come on... give us what your opinion stands on please. Show us why you believe we cannot be secure in Christ Jesus nor can we know it. Perhaps you are unable to and it’s simply an opinion and nothing more????
“It’s amazing that the things which affect our spiritual life people say... “don’t judge.””
judging is what people do, and is hardly amazing. However the eternal judgement is God’s alone, no matter how much people like to pretend to know what He will do.
” Show us why you believe we cannot be secure in Christ Jesus nor can we know it.”
My position is that Neither Catholics, nor Protestants can know what God’s judgement will be for the other.
You are insufferably argumentative over that, which is pretty funny.
....”Anyone who presumes to know their or the fate of others souls is attempting to read the mind of God”....
That’s just silly talk....God has revealed otherwise that we may know.....”These things are written that you may Know you have eternal life.”.....are you saying he’s not being truthful with us?
“That’s just silly talk”
Of course it seems that way to those among us who presume to know Gods judgement for other people and are not bashful in telling the world.
...”My position is that Neither Catholics, nor Protestants can know what God’s judgement will be for the other”....
Regarding Salvation of the believer..correct? Because anything else does not come into play regarding a persons soul. Though of course the unsaved have a better chance of hearing the Gospel message and the assurances of that salvation more in some churches than others.
As I understand it in the catholic church it’s a sin to believe you are eternally secure....so if that’s the case then of course the catholic church is not the place to be when one desires that assurance.
I’ll consider that a compliment because of course the world needs to know the truth that they can be assured of their salvation....with certainty.
Let’s just agree to disagree.
I think we are here:
You have no problem in telling me I’m going to hell.
I say you have no idea if I’m going to hell or not.
I think we both understand our respective positions.
“I’ll consider that a compliment because of course the world needs to know the truth that they can be assured of their salvation....with certainty.”
Thank you for your service to humanity
...” the eternal judgement is God’s alone, no matter how much people like to pretend to know what He will do”...
There’s nothing “pretending” about knowing ones salvation is secure. Your argument to the contrary is that it’s not possible to know...and that simply isn’t true.
Jesus time and again made it clear, and this with certainty, that we can know Him and know we are eternally His. Those who are His know these truths and believe that He meant what he has stated so vividly.
If we are His our Judgement will not be one of condemnation by any means....for Jesus has fully paid the price and we are now “free” from that condemnation.
The enemy of God stands before God’s thrown accusing us of all sorts of sin...but Jesus steps in and says Father I paid for that.
It’s really that simple....”It is finished” Jesus said...and we are complete in Him...fully His... and this with all the certainty that His word confirms that this is so.
...”You have no problem in telling me I’m going to hell”...
Please take that back as I never once stated that...nor implied that to you. What I have asked is what are you basing your position on that believers cannot know they are eternally secure?
“Please take that back as I never once stated that...nor implied that to you.”
Don’t worry, I don’t take it personally.
You most certainly did imply what I said - things like (your words) “calling God a liar” would most likely not expedite ones soul through the pearly gates.
No matter how perfect a human being thinks they are (or appears to be to others), perhaps with you as an exception, they still will be judged by God.
Well of course were one to state something that isn’t true to God’s word then they would be opposing what God has said...so either God or the individual is not telling the truth. Thus a liar. But saying something that is not true does not send a person to hell by any means.....it’s rejection of the finished work of Jesus Christ that dooms people for they’ve chosen not to believe He gave His life for them...and paid the jugement for their sins.
As ‘believers’ our judgement will be of rewards, not condemnation. It will be a judgement of condemnation for those without Christ Jesus.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
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