Posted on 11/02/2014 3:14:08 PM PST by NYer
On All Souls Day, the Catholic Church offers prayers and liturgies for the repose of the dead. As Catholics, we are called by the Church to focus our spiritual energies to assist these poor souls, who, though saved, are still in need of purification. Our prayers and sacrifices assist them in this process of purification as a means used by God to communicate purifying grace to them. After all, He is the vine, we are the branches so that He produces his fruits of grace through us.
The practice of praying for the dead actually predates Christianity. In 2 Maccabees 12: 41-45, Judas offers prayers and sacrifices for his fallen comrades to make “atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin.” Some argue that the books of the Maccabees are not inspired scripture. Leaving that argument aside for now, we can at least look at them as historical books detailing accepted pious practices of God’s people some 300 years before Christ.
If that is the only place in the Bible where we find any reference to purgatory, many Protestant Christians argue, then that is a weak support for such a practice. Fortunately, we know as Catholics that all of our doctrines are indeed found in the Word of God, as is the doctrine of Purgatory. Hence what follows is a biblical understanding of the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory.
The book of Genesis recounts for us the far reaching repercussions of Adam and Eve’s disobedience in the Garden. This sin, we find, brought about four consequences which I will summarize here (Gen 3: 16-24):
First, their sin brings about disharmony between persons. God tells Eve that both her relationship to her husband and children will now be characterized by pain and mistrust (Gen 3:16). Further, God has to make garments for man and woman because now, as the text implies, they feel shame (Gen 3:21).
Second, their sin brings about disharmony between man and creation. God tells Adam that he will produce the fruit of the earth with toil and difficulty (Gen 3: 17). Even the ground itself is cursed because of their sin (Gen 3: 17).
Third, their sin brings about disharmony between man and himself. He no longer has spiritual control over his body; thus, his body returns to the dust of the ground (Gen 3: 19). Adam and Eve are no longer able to receive everlasting life (Gen 3: 22).
Lastly and most importantly, sin brings disharmony between God and man. This consequence results in mistrust and fear of God (Gen 3: 10), and, worse, spiritual death. Without God, neither physical nor spiritual life can be sustained (Gen 3: 19, 24).
The first three disharmonies mentioned above are called ‘Temporal punishments due to sin.’ Temporal refers to things pertaining to this world. The last disharmony, the disharmony with God, is called eternal punishment, because it refers to things pertaining to the eternal world with God.
All four of these disharmonies are healed by Christ. The only healing we experience fully in this life, however, is from eternal punishment–or disharmony with God. That’s why Christ is the One Mediator between God and man.
It should be clear that we don’t experience a full healing from the temporal disharmonies/punishments as Christians, because we still struggle. We experience suffering, illness, catastrophes, and even death. Yet, Christ heals these problems, too, it’s just that we don’t experience the full healing in the temporal sphere until He returns.
Until then, we are called to struggle for His Kingdom. As St. Paul puts it, “But we have this treasure (the healing grace of salvation) in earthen vessels, to show that the transcendent power belongs to God and not to us. We are afflicted in every way but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying around in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies.” (2 Cor 7-10)
To overcome these temporal disharmonies, we are called to cooperate with Christ’s power in grace so as to bring about the healing with Him in these areas. This is why we are called to pray, fast, and alms give so as to forgive our neighbor’s sins and be forgiven, and to receive the reward promised by our heavenly Father that we will once again regain temporal peace/harmony on earth and in heaven (Mt 6:5-23).
What happens if we die and are reconciled to God (the eternal punishment for sin), but have not entirely cooperated with grace to overcome the temporal punishments for sin? St. Paul gives us the answer in 1 Cor 3: 12-16. He says that after death, our works will be tested “as though by fire, and the fire will test what kind of work we have done,” and we will suffer loss, though we will still be saved (1 Cor 3:13-15).
This is a very clear passage regarding the purification (which we call purgatory) that takes place after death. This fire purifies us from our temporal disharmonies mentioned above, if we die without having them entirely purified in this life.
I didn't know what it was called. Thanks.
If God got the Jews to pray for the dead, then why would we not consider it an important thing?
It depends on the context, doesn't it? In Genesis, God created the world in six "days" and specifically said "evening and morning" were what counted as a day. To humans, in THIS earthly life, a day is approx. 24 hours. But with God - because He is eternal - time is not binding on Him which means our thousand years could be as one day with Him. Not everything is a pat yes or no answer, is it?
Now, can you explain why two Roman Catholics believe two different things about the "good" thief's eternity?
Catholicism's perversion of many truths of the Christian faith HAVE been refuted countless times. That some RCs refuse to even consider it is possible is the REAL problem. There are some traditions Catholics believe that have no basis in Scripture and DO contradict Scripture. Those traditions that are backed up BY Scripture (i.e., the Trinity, the virgin birth, Christ's deity) happen to be the ones that Protestants agree with RCs on. Some RCs have a false idea of what sola Scriptura means and that is also a problem since they think their church can decide whatever they want is "sacred tradition" and they MUST obey. That is what Jesus meant when He rebuked the Pharisees of His day - they nullified God's word BY their traditions.
The Torah was Oral and then written to supplement the oral traditions, not the other way around, and the early Christians, being Jewish, did likewise. See St. Paul’s letter to Corinthians. Protestants do not understand handed down oral tradition and so they do not understand either Judaism or Christianity who use both methods. Therefore, their arguments are useless due to utter lack of perspective.
That's a bigoted way of seeing one's opponents. Just presume they aren't capable of understanding something and it explains why they are wrong about everything. Malarkey! It is understood very well that whatever traditions are determined to be salvific (must be believed to be saved) must also be found in God's word. Most of the traditions Protestants reject of the RCC are those that are not Apostolic nor found anywhere in Scripture. The early Christians held to a rule of faith that was always believed by everyone, everywhere. If it is something crucial to our faith, it WILL be found in divine revelation.
The Jews understood this principle quite well and they believed God when He called them to obedience to His word. He spelled it all out to them and left nothing to guess work. Why would He change that dynamic with Christians???
Catholics have always had to defend their beliefs since before the bible was even written - St. Paul persecuted the early Christians when he was Saul.
CHRISTIANS have always defended their faith because they passed on the truths Jesus taught to his Apostles and which these disciples ensured were written down through the leading and guiding of the Holy Spirit and the truth was confirmed by changed lives and hearts and miracles. Within a decade after Christ's ascension, the epistles began to be written and dispersed, not to mention, the books of the Old Testament were also taught and honored because they were seen as the word of God - His divine revelation to man. St. Paul, because he was a Jewish pharisee, was convicted on the truth of Jesus as the Messiah when He appeared to him after the resurrection. Paul knew the prophecies about the Messiah and he used those writings in his preaching of the gospel to other Jews and Gentiles. There is power in the WORD.
When traditions are also backed up by Scripture, they too are powerful.
To whom will you pray? To the Goddess or one of the many saints?
O Ever-Virgin Mother of God and Mediatrix of Grace who are the House of Gold within which dwells your Son, our Mediator, Jesus Christ, we humbly beseech you to grant our requests for our salvation and the salvation of the entire world.
Actually it is a completely accurate statement, If prots did understand they would be Catholics.
Just presume they aren't capable of understanding something and it explains why they are wrong about everything.
Not everything, just those things that contradict the Catholic Church. Remember EVERYTHING good and true that prots know about God has come from the Catholic Church.
RR see post 265 and I will add God the Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Angels as well. It is going to take a lot to soften the hearts of the anti-Catholics here on FR.
Amen!
Exactly.
And that's where Catholicism parts ways with Christianity and returns to the pagan world of goddess worship.
Uh huh.
This is just a discussion trying to get at the truth.
I considered converting to Catholicism at several points in my life and would have but for a few points...Goddess worship and the lack of assurance as to salvation being the foremost.
I prayed long and hard (to Jesus) about such and always got the same answer: "I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE...and you can trust in ME and ME alone." ME being the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit...not the goddess or the saints. And TRUST being that if I worship HIM and serve HIM and obey HIM and TRUST in HIM, my salvation is assured because HE is TRUSTWORTHY.
You are wrong.
You want the truth, that is found in the Catholic Church.
I respect that you think so but having studied long and hard and having spoken to many faithful and knowledgeable people (including priests), I just disagree.
You are RIGHT!
If you are Catholic/Orthodox you probably would. If your religious tradition came from Luther/Calvin, not so much.
Cradle Catholic, left at age 20 and came back age 30. I can guarantee I studied longer and harder than you. And anyone that believes that the Catholic Church engages in "goddess worship" has not studied long enough or hard enough.
LOL. You can?
If you believe that Catholics engage in “goddess worship” absolutely.
So, you are praying to Mary, Jesus’ mother, to grant you salvation? According to John 14:6 the only way to salvation is through Jesus. Mary can’t grant you anything much less salvation.
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