Posted on 10/28/2014 5:23:04 AM PDT by Colofornian
The so-called 'premortal' world Mormons claim they had as alien spirits on a distant planet, supposedly located near the star they call "Kolob":
Joseph Fielding Smith, 10th "prophet" of the Mormon Church:
"Before the foundations of this earth were laid, WE were ALL in the presence of the Father as spiritual children. Lucifer was one of us..." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., Religious Truths Defined: A comparison of Religious Faiths with the Restored Gospel, Bookcraft, Salt Lake City, p. 67, 1959/1962)
Mormon seminary/institute instructor John K. Challis contributed a chapter to a Salt Lake City published book in 1993 (Aspen Books; title: Riches of Eternity). Challis' chapter title was: "The Reality of Satan." Allow me to quote directly from Challis (pp. 37-38 of book), who himself highlighted the word "after" in the following excerpt:
"In two of the four published recitals of the First Vision (the 1835 account and the 1838 account, which is now JS-H:1:5-20), the attack of a powerful 'unseen' being is recorded... His glorious theophany came AFTER his being seized and overcome for a time by Satan. The attack was a powerful one. Joseph said in 1835 that my toung [sic] seemed to be swolen [sic] in my mouth, so that I could not utter, I heard a noise behind me like some person walking towards me, I strove again to pray, but could not, the noise of walking seemed to draw nearer, I suprung up on my feet,...and looked around, but saw no person or thing."
The citation of what Smith reported was footnoted as coming from Dean C. Jessee, compiler and editor, The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith (Deseret Book Co, 1984, p. 75. (Note: Deseret Book Company is owned by the Mormon Church)
Challis added: "In his 1838 recital of the events, Joseph spoke of a 'thick darkness' gathering around him and said that it seemed for a time he was 'doomed to sudden destruction' (JS-H 1:15)." (p. 138)
Lds "apostle" Mark E. Petersen, speaking at one of the bi-annual Conferences the Salt Lake City Mormon church hosts for its entire church, April, 1952:
"And then read of his [Joseph Smith's] visits with...Moroni, a personage who came back from the dead and ministered to Joseph Smith, gave him direction, and helped him in the production of the Book of Mormon." (Lds "apostle" Mark E. Petersen, Conference Reports, April 1952, pp. 106-107).
Note: As a BYU history professor at the time, Quinn earlier authored the book: Early Mormonism and the Magic World View
Per Pratt's 1853 sermon excerpts:
Excerpt A:
Who communicated with our great Prophet, and revealed through him as a medium, the ancient history of a hemisphere, and the records of the ancient dead? Moroni, who had lived upon the earth 1400 years before....Who revealed to him the plan of redemption, and of exaltation for the dead who had died without the Gospel and the keys and preparations necessary for holy and perpetual converse with Jesus Christ, and with the spirits of just men made perfect?...Those from the dead!...Shall we, then, deny the principle, the philosophy, the fact of communication between worlds? No! verily no! Editors, statesmen, philosophers, priests, and lawyers, as well as the common people, began to advocate the principle of converse with the dead, by visions, DIVINATION, clairvoyance, knocking, and writing mediums, etc., etc. This spiritual philosophy of converse with the dead, once established by the labors, toils, sufferings, and martyrdom of its modern founders, and now embraced by a large portion of the learned world, show a triumph more rapid and complete — a victory more extensive, than has ever been achieved in the same length of time in our world.
Source: GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism
[Please note: The above isn't very surprising given that the very Mormon "scriptures" say that The primary focus of the Mormon church is on serving the dead! (Doctrine & Covenants 128:15; 138:27)]
Excerpt B: Pratt claimed that the very purpose of Mormon temples included:
Ye are assembled...and have laid these Corner Stones, for the express purpose that the living might hear from the dead, and that we may prepare a holy sanctuary, where "the people may seek unto their God, for the living to hear from the dead"...
Excerpt C: Pratt claimed that the spiritism culture of the 1840s and 1850s was introduced by Joseph Smith
(the) "spiritual philosophy of the present age" (spiritism had been introduced in the U.S. about five years prior) "was introduced to the modern world by Joseph Smith." And, he claimed, the real reason that Smith was killed was because Smith acted as "a medium of communication with the invisible world,whereby the living could hear from the dead."
[Yes, you heard it first from Mitt Romney's G-G grandfather -- 161 years ago during the emphasis on occultism within Mormon history...which also coincides with its April start date as a "church." (see 15 occultic and controversial facts you may want to know about Lds temples [Vanity] for documentation on this]
Excerpt D: Pratt emphasized how Smith served as a 'medium':
"ONE OF THE LEADING OR FUNDAMENTAL TRUTHS OF 'MORMON' PHILOSOPHY, viz. - 'That the living may hear from the dead' commenced thru Smith acting as a "medium." + "..How do the Saints expect the necessary information by which to complete the ministrations for the salvation and exaltation of their friends who have died? By one holding the keys of the oracles of God [allegedly a Mormon prophet], as a medium through which the living can hear from the dead."
For more on this sermon, see: Journal of Discourses/Vol 2/Spiritual Communication [The OTHER World Series: Lds discourse w/dead]
It would be “easy” to conclude that modern-day Mormonism has shed such “medium” vocabulary. That would be a false assumption.
The Salt Lake City-based Mormon church routinely produces massive curricula documents for their high school seminary and college Institute coursework. The course manual published in 1978-1979 for their Religion 211-212 requirements included this note on p.418 of The Life and Teachings of Jesus & His Apostles: "'Speak by inspiration, not of yourself, but simply as a MEDIUM through whom the mind and will of the Lord is revealed..." (Bruce McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, vol. 3, p. 317) .
For documentation, see:
* 19th century occultic Mormon phenomena: Paranormal intermingling, demonic possession [Vanity]
* They See Dead People? (The OTHER World Series - LDS & Temple Hauntings)
* Lds Temple Haunted? Did Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to leader? [Vanity]
See:
* 19th century occultic Mormon phenomena: Paranormal intermingling, demonic possession [Vanity]
In fact, after the above was posted last year, I came across a few other examples of evil spirits "hanging out" with future Lds "prophets" (like Lorenzo Snow, a "prophet" of the 1890s who served as an Lds missionary in England in the 1840s:
"As they had with other church leaders, evil spirits sought to confound Lorenzo [Snow] in his efforts. One night in his London apartment, he was awakened by loud noises. 'It seemed as though every piece of furniture in the room was put in motion, back and forth against each other in such terrible fury that sleep and rest were utter impossibilities.' Accompanying the commotion was an oppressive feeling that filled the whole room. The disturbance came again the next night, and several more nights after that..." (The Presidents of the Church: Biographical Essays, by Heidi S. Swinton, 1986 Deseret Book Co, 1986, p. 154...Deseret Book Company is owned by the Mormon Church).
Another prominent Lds general authority of the 1950s and 1960s – Hugh B. Brown -- serving as one of the top three-ranked Mormon leaders from 1961-1970 after being designated an "apostle" in the 1950s, described how an attack by demonic entities was intertwined with his call to be a church leader:
"We were in Canada. I was...an attorney for an oil company and manager of it...I drove to the city of Edmonton...I went into the bedroom alone and there, through the night, I had the most terrible battle with the powers of the adversary. I wanted to destroy myself. Not in the sense of suicide; but something within me was impelling me to wish that I could cease to be...It was terrible. The blackness was so thick you could feel it. Sister Brown came in later in the night, toward morning in fact, wanting to know what was the matter. And when she closed the door, she said, 'What's in this room?' And I said, 'Nothing but the power of the devil is in this room...That night at 10:00 o'clock, October 1953 – the telephone rang. Sister Brown answered. She called me and said, 'Salt Lake's calling,' and I wondered who could be calling me from that far away. I took the phone and said, 'Hello.' This is David O. McKay calling. The Lord wants you to give the balance of your life to Him and His Church..." (The Life & Teachings of Jesus & His Apostles, Course Manual Religion 211-212, 2nd edition 1978-1979, p. 133).
“Whether you choose to accept these testimonies or not is your affair, but evidence is clear that none of the three witnesses ever denied their experience of witnessing the Book of Mormon plates presented to them by the angel.”
The “witnesses” reliability depends entirely on their character, as to whether they are believable or not.
In this case, all were demonstrated not only to be liars, since they did not see the “golden plates”, but men of extremely low character, as evidenced in the testimony I gave you. Even Joseph Smith and other leaders called the witnesses men of low character.
To summarize our conversation, Normandy, you made a truth claim and have backed it up with just your opinion and the opinion of men of the lowest character. No objective person would take either to be factual evidence.
It appears you’ve based your entire eternal destiny on feelings and corrupt men. I would wish better for you.
Where?
You were SHOWN where YOU typed LACKEYS.
You tried to explain that away as an insult to Satan; and NOT the LACKEYS.
I ain't buying it.
Any apology needs to come from you.
I'll bet SATAN has taken it personally!
What 'pretense'?
I might 'know your faith'; but there may be OTHERS reading this for the first time.
THEY do not know it.
You probably come across to them as a MORMON; given your support of that foul belief.
Twice now you have IGNORED words from Mormon leaders; posted once at #18 and again at #145.
You have some nerve, talking about others, when you silently APPROVE of those damning quotes from Mormon leaders.
Who? Where? Show an example or apologize.
Thou shall not bear false witness.
Are you an honorable Christian Elsie?
#108
The only name in that quote is satan's.
Those who have sympathy for satan lack the moral authority to decide who is a real Christian.
Are you an honorable Christian Elsie, or a satan sympathizer?
placemarker
Only two choices?
Why don’t YOU answer MY questions?
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