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To: CynicalBear; boatbums; Elsie
Hi, CynicalBear, I apologize. It looks like I messed up that link, so let me try again: Biblehub Link I linked BibleHub because it gave a lot of related verses, not just 1 Peter 2:13. (look in the right hand column), You can see there are Biblical principles to be found here, not just about "human" authority or "Church" authority, but about authority in general.

The Apostle Paul insists that civil and church authority are not completely separate, but both are established by God:

" For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God;"

Second, while Christ is indisputably head over the assembly of believers, He Himself has established authority in His Church:

Matthew 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Matthew 16:19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Matthew 18:18
“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

1 Corinthians 12:28-29
And God Himself has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?

So God Himself is shown to be the one who "appoints" and "establishes" both secular and church leaders, since He is the one with the ultimate authority, and all authority comes from Him.

In no case is the authority to be exercised as "apart from God" or "against God." But if a person in authority, whether an emperor, a governor, a magistrate, a priest, pastor, teacher or father or mother, were to lead in a defiant against Christ, that person would be outside of God's will and thus one wold not be bound in obedience to follow them in something sinful.

But to say "There is never any reference to submitting to any individual over another in the assembly of God." is simply wrong. You can see the operation of authority in the actions of the Council of Jerusalem, for sure; and Paul is constantly reiterating his legitimate authority. In the New Covenant, even though Christians are a kingdom of priests (1 Pet. 2:9), Jesus calls certain men to a special ministry (Rom. 15:15–16). Christ calls men to serve the Church (2 Tim. 1:6–7) as pastors, teachers, and spiritual fathers who heal, feed, and strengthen God’s people.

That's the kind of explicitly Biblical authority we're speaking of. Not to dominate, but to be shepherds like Christ, Who especially appointed Peter, personally, to the role of chief shepherd when He told him three times to "feed my lambs," "tend to my lambs," and "feed my sheep"; and also when He called him, personally, to "strengthen the brethren."

896 posted on 10/11/2014 5:25:28 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Seriously.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
>>You can see there are Biblical principles to be found here, not just about "human" authority or "Church" authority, but about authority in general.<<

There is no "authority" established by Christ or the apostles other than the authorulity of Christ over the assembly of believers and the husband over the wife. Any other supposed "authority" within the assembly of believers is a perversion.

>>I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven<<

The "keys" are the scriptures. If you read the Greek it says that whatever you bind "will have already been bound in heaven". They were to simply apply the scriptures and declare what had been established in heaven. The Catholic Church has totally abandoned what the words in Greek mean. The apostles did NOT decide what would be established, they declared what was established in heaven.

>>Christ calls men to serve the Church (2 Tim. 1:6–7) as pastors, teachers, and spiritual fathers who heal, feed, and strengthen God’s people.≤<

Those are all servants. Not one of those was to be in a position of " authority. Reference Christ's words when the apostles asked who amongst them was greatest.

897 posted on 10/11/2014 6:14:33 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus info)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Not to dominate, but to be shepherds like Christ, Who especially appointed Peter, personally, to the role of chief shepherd when He told him three times to "feed my lambs," "tend to my lambs," and "feed my sheep"; and also when He called him, personally, to "strengthen the brethren."

No, I'm sorry, but the BIBLE does not support your assertion.


Let me post the data; one; more; time...



Matthew 16:13-18
 13.  When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
 14.  They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
 15.  "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
 16.  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."
 17.  Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
 18.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades  will not overcome it.
 19.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
 
Chapters and verses were invented later; as we all know...
 
   When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"   They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."   "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."   Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.   And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades  will not overcome it.    I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
 
 
Reading the text we can see that Jesus is talking to the GROUP of disciples; and He is answered by the impulsive one - SIMON Peter.
After dealing with SIMON Peter, He states - to the group -  "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
 
Catholic teaching limits this to SIMON Peter.

975 posted on 10/12/2014 4:05:52 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
... He told him three times to "feed my lambs," "tend to my lambs," and "feed my sheep"; and also when He called him, personally, to "strengthen the brethren."

And what kind of a job was Peter doing later; as reasonable person might ask??



Galatians 2:1-14 (NIV)

Then after fourteen years, I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along also. I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain. Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.

As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message. On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised. For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. 10 All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along.

11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

 



So; your "first pope" seems to have had a mighty poor learning experience in  his catechism classes!!  After fourteen years, he STILL is failing to TEACH correctly!

976 posted on 10/12/2014 4:22:34 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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