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To: af_vet_1981
Do you believe the behavior and attitude of the Jews makes them unlovable as a race, both in Luther's time, Hitler's time, and in our day ? I'm all ears, so to speak

So in response to the evidence of Catholic antisemtism, you react with this? True to form.

Note that despite your polemical contruance, I did not say race, but referred culture at the time, that i think "the Jews overall had evidently made themselves rather unlovable." I think when Christians are characteristically self-righteous, clannish, and are guilty of things your popes and contemporaries charge, then they make themselves rather unlovable, more so that standing for truth will, versus proactively interacting with souls with grace and charity, without compromising.

Perhaps i should not believe things your popes and contemporaries charge, and would be happy to see it refuted, but i do try to look at things objectively.

I think it is rather that the Jewish people are a perpetual testimony to the LORD God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, and serve some kind of corporate function to bring out the best and worst of man's nature across the whole earth.

It is not "rather," which would be a false dilemma, but all else that you said is true.

The Jewish mistrust of it comes with the exclusion of the Jews, where the proponent yearns for, and loves, Israel only as a sign of the return of the LORD Jesus Christ,

Imputing that motive to me typical of your apologetics, yet i can honestly say it is not true. I have a special love for Jews (my own land lord and his mom who is upstairs even are) which is from God, which is not due to love shown from them to me.

Reading or watching about the Holocaust has made me angry, and i asked myself whether i would be willing to identify myself as a Jew in support of them in such a case. I bought the movie "Escape from Sobibor" recently and think every kid in the USA should watch it. The Germans who took part in such treatment were not showing Christianity And due to that love, which i believe should be an attribute of every born again believer, regardless of eschatology, and i do not think is overall due to it, is behind my support of Israel, the latter day conversion of which people Scripture does foretell , and I also love the Rose Price story video as well, which i also have, thank God. But i have a special affection for Jews nonetheless.

My comment about Jews being rather unlovable simply provides some historical context, as does the NT for the words of Paul, that wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. Whether you believe me or not.

Hence, one can see why I forgave the Catholic Church when that frail old man, blessed John Paul II, walked up to the Western Wall to put a prayer to God for forgiveness in one of the cracks.

Better late than never, or praying to departed saints, but of course it was only the "children of the church who did such things as torture and kill "heretics," not the pristine church, despite such being done in obedience to the sppsd "vicar of Christ."

3,167 posted on 10/23/2014 6:31:17 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
So in response to the evidence of Catholic antisemtism, you react with this? True to form.

I believe that I addressed Catholic persecution of, and failure to assist, the Jews. I hate all the unrighteousness done to the Jews over the centuries by Catholics, not to mention Protestants and others who claimed the name of Jesus. It is tragically dissonant. Blessed John Paul II walked to the Western Wall, his head covered, to offer a prayer for forgiveness for what was done, and what was not done. Should I not forgive ? I too must stand before the judgment seat of a Messiah, and I am a sinner. I forgive. As it is written. Go and sin no more. The passage of Paul you quote about wrath I only attribute to one generation, from the example here,

12Then the angel of the LORD answered and said, O LORD of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years? 13And the LORD answered the angel that talked with me with good words and comfortable words. 14So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Cry thou, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy. 15And I am very sore displeased with the heathen that are at ease: for I was but a little displeased, and they helped forward the affliction. 16Therefore thus saith the LORD; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem. 17Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem.

as well as from this New Covenant prophecy

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: 36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.
I suppose, as certain of your own poets have said

Still, a man hears what he wants to hear. And disregards the rest. When I left my home and my family I was no more than a boy ....

Any one of us can miss the mitzvot (good deeds) another actually does and focus on where we think he needs improvement. And then, I just had to click on that video of the young woman pleading for her life as ISIS stoned her to death for adultery. Her Arabic was very similar to the Hebrew phrase uttered on Yom Kippur or in the Lord's Prayer. I could hear her saying over and over, again, "slachni" where "ni" refers to just her, "forgive me" and her murderering cleric tells her to say it to "Allah" not to them (where she would have to use a different phrase). They showed her no mercy. Her father refused to forgive her and signaled the stoning to commence, with he himself smashing her head in with the final honorific blow. Right now, I can't get this video out of my heart and ask the LORD, the true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to grant this woman a place in his kingdom and to avenge and deliver all the victims of Islamic rapists and murderers.

3,188 posted on 10/24/2014 7:19:19 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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