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To: Elsie
"I, for one, do not think that Ancients and Creatures are equal to Catholic saints!"

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Well, Elsie, I'm sure we will all give "what you think" the precise level of esteem and respect it deserves.

Do you know what the term "ancients" means Elsie?

Perhaps this will help:

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"ancients" defined - people who lived in times long past (especially during the historical period before the fall of the Roman Empire in western Europe)

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Now, let me also help you with some alternate translations of that Bible text which might be easier for some here to understand.

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And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;    Revelation 5:8 (RSVCE)

When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.    Revelation 5:8 (NASB)

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We know for sure that the "four living creatures" and the "twenty-four elders" who bring the prayers of the saints before the Lamb are NOT God (who is definitely NOT a creature, and is definitely NOT one of the twenty-four elders).

When you really analyze that text carefully and prayerfully, it is easy to see who are presenting those prayers before the Lamb.

1,374 posted on 10/13/2014 4:34:26 PM PDT by Heart-Rest ("Our hearts are restless, Lord, until they rest in Thee." - St. Augustine)
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To: Heart-Rest; Elsie
>>"which are the prayers of the saints."<<

Wait, the Catholic Church says they only declare who is a saint. Does that verse mean that your prayers are not heard unless they go through one of your so called saints?

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Was the Holy Spirit through Paul not telling the truth?

1,379 posted on 10/13/2014 5:13:06 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus info)
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To: Heart-Rest
When you really analyze that text carefully and prayerfully, it is easy to see who are presenting those prayers before the Lamb.

Thanks for explaining MUCH better than I can that the 'saints in heaven', mentioned by you, are NOT the "SAINTS" that the Catholic church creates from time to time.


Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

1,458 posted on 10/14/2014 4:03:15 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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