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To: CynicalBear
I think we need to have, in common, a more adequate definition of the word "agree" and the word "authority."

Otherwise we're just slinging hash and not actually getting to the significance of these passages.

Ultimate authority is always Christ's, with the Father, in the unity of the Holy Spirit. He does, however, delegate. We can get an idea of the significance of the concept of delegated authority when we look at Isaiah's foreshadowing passage about the "keys"
:

Isaiah 22:21-23
And I will clothe him with your tunic
And tie your sash securely about him.
I will entrust him with your authority,
And he will become a father
to the inhabitants of Jerusalem
and to the house of Judah.
"Then I will set the key of the house of David
on his shoulder,
When he opens no one will shut,
When he shuts no one will open.
"I will drive him like a peg in a firm place,
And he will become a throne of glory to his father's house.

There it is: the keys, the delegation of authority, the opening and closing. The commentaries from Clark and the rest, here (LINK) are especially helpful --- and no, they're not Catholic commentaries. It is simply not debatable that the keys are the ensign of authority.

1,008 posted on 10/12/2014 6:50:58 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Seriously.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
The underlying and ultimate authority is God. The keys to the kingdom of God is His word as recorded in scripture. The keys which open the kingdom to an individual is the scriptures. The gospel is what opens that door. It has already been determined who is allowed in. The keeper of the keys does not decide who goes in and who is not allowed in. That has already been decided and spelled out in scripture. Every believer is given those keys. Only those who accept Christ as their savior and repent are allowed in. Those who do not will be kept out. The authority to declare those truths is given to every believer.

It is true that initially it was the deciples of Christ who were given the responsibility to spread the gospel and those who have been grown in the faith have greater responsibility to uphold that gospel. That does not however negate the authority that all believers have in declaring the truths of the gospel. Anyone who has accepted Christ and been indwelt by the Holy Spirit holds the keys to the kingdom. The door has been open to all but it's scripture that tells us who will be allowed in. We nor the apostles, pope or anyone else can decide who is allowed in as that has already been decided.

1,016 posted on 10/12/2014 7:55:30 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus info)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Isaiah 22:21-23
And I will clothe him with your tunic
And tie your sash securely about him.
I will entrust him with your authority,
And he will become a father
to the inhabitants of Jerusalem
and to the house of Judah.
"Then I will set the key of the house of David on his shoulder,
When he opens no one will shut,
When he shuts no one will open.
"I will drive him like a peg in a firm place,
And he will become a throne of glory to his father's house.

So this is Peter, eh??? He'll be a nail in a firm place??? So what happens when you actually read the whole thing in context??? And you include the verse you left out???

Isa 22:25 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the LORD hath spoken it.

What's that all about in the reign of Peter and subsequent papal authority???

There it is: the keys, the delegation of authority, the opening and closing. The commentaries from Clark and the rest, here (LINK) are especially helpful --- and no, they're not Catholic commentaries. It is simply not debatable that the keys are the ensign of authority.

The fact is: the keys in Matthew were given to all the disciples and apostles...And they were not given for the entrance to heaven but the Kingdom of heaven...

And we can further see by comparing scripture with scripture, these keys are not just authority but authority of knowledge...

Luk_11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

This knowledge was revealed to Peter and the others alowing them to accept and reject souls into the Kingdom based on revealed knowledge from above...

1,036 posted on 10/12/2014 9:46:06 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I think we need to have, in common, a more adequate definition of the word "agree" and the word "authority."

Good luck with that!




 


'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,
' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'  


1,087 posted on 10/12/2014 12:19:23 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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