this refers to Luther's debate with Eck, in which the latter appealed to 2 Maccabees 12:46 as a clear and incontestable proof from Scripture that Purgatory exists. To which Luther responded, "There is no proof of Purgatory in any portion of sacred Scripture, for the book of Maccabees not being in the Canon, is of weight with the faithful, but avails nothing with the obstinate"
And as he had Catholic support in this, for the canon with the apocrypha was not indisputably settled (with even Cardinals dissenting in Trent), in seeking to support her traditions against the Reformers then Trent had to render an infallible list of books, which had general consensus. Thus it was not only Luther but Rome which had doctrinal motivation for their position on the canon.
Scripture itself is sufficient to prove the existence of Purgatory.
Wrong, as will be shown by God's grace.
The chief Old Testament verse that indicates the necessity of purgation after death (and thus implies a place or state where such purgation takes place—hence the name Purgatory) is 2 Maccabees 12:46: It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
But 2Mac. 12 teaches that prayers and sacrifices for the dead are efficacious for dead idolaters, who were slain for being so , which is a mortal sin according to Rome, for which there is no purgatory.
And upon the day following, as the use had been, Judas and his company came to take up the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen in their fathers' graves. Now under the coats of every one that was slain they found things consecrated to the idols of the Jamnites, which is forbidden the Jews by the law. Then every man saw that this was the cause wherefore they were slain. (2Ma 12:39-40)
Thus all you have is an extraBiblical book which proves more than you want, and forces RC apologists to engage in special pleading to explain.
(A side note: Martin Luther argued that 1 and 2 Maccabees did not belong in the canon of the Old Testament, even though they had been accepted by the universal Church from the time that the canon was settled. Thus his contention, condemned by Pope Leo, that “Purgatory cannot be proved from Sacred Scripture which is in the canon.”)
Repeated against but wrong again. There was no infallible canon at the time. If only RCs would not refuse to read what refutes their parroted canard. I will provide just one admission from the Catholic Encyclopedia, Canon of the Old Testament;
In the Latin Church, all through the Middle Ages [5th century to the 15th century] we find evidence of hesitation about the character of the deuterocanonicals. There is a current friendly to them, another one distinctly unfavourable to their authority and sacredness, while wavering between the two are a number of writers whose veneration for these books is tempered by some perplexity as to their exact standing, and among those we note St. Thomas Aquinas. Few are found to unequivocally acknowledge their canonicity. The prevailing attitude of Western medieval authors is substantially that of the Greek Fathers. The chief cause of this phenomenon in the West is to be sought in the influence, direct and indirect, of St. Jerome's depreciating Prologus. (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm) ^
Saint Peter and Saint Paul both speak of “trials” that are compared with a “cleansing fire.” In 1 Peter 1:6-7, Saint Peter refers to our necessary trials in this world:
Exactly, in this world, "though now for a season - not later after death. All exhortation toward growth in moral perfection is taught and shown as being in this world! And is because God wants the believer to grow in grace to the glory of God and our good, and not to fall.
And in 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, Saint Paul extends this image into the life after this one: Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
More wresting of Scripture as this only occurs as the return of Christ, (1Cor. 4:5; 2Tim. 4:1,8; Rev.11:18; Mt. 25:31-46; 1Pt. 1:7; 5:4) not commencing at death,
and the only suffering is the Lord's displeasure and loss of rewards, based upon the quality of his work which he built the church with,
while the believer is saved despite the loss of material, not because of! See here .
Christ Himself, in Matthew 12:31-32, speaks of forgiveness in this age (here on earth, as in 1 Peter 1:6-7) and in the world to come (as in 1 Corinthians 3:13-15):
Matthew 12:31-32 refers to the Lords reign on earth, which is followed by the judgment, and thus He goes on to say, B"ut I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." (Matthew 12:36)
The Bible most apparently teaches that the resurrected saints (who have part in the first resurrection - the resurrection of life:” Jn. 5:29a; Rev. 20:6,7,14) will return with the LORD from Heaven to execute judgment, and to reign with with Him for the 1,000 year millennium. (Rv. 2:27; 19:15; 20:6 - and during which the Jews shall be tested): “And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him." (Jude 1:14-15; cf. Mal. 3:18; Mt 16:27; 19:28; Mt 24:30,31; 25:31; Lk. 22:20; 2Th 1:7,8; Re 1:7; 5:10; 19:6-20; 20:4) “Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.” (Mt. 13:43) And as stars differs from one another in glory, (1Cor. 15:41) it is not unreasonable to suppose that in eternity some saints might shine brighter than another, depending upon how single their eye was on earth, (Mt. 6:22) and how they responded to the light and grace they received. (Lk. 12:48)]
All RCs can claim is some sort of "implicit support" for postmortem purification, but the idea is nothing more than misconstruing what Scripture says, so that believers are yet unholy and defiled even though God says that in Christ they are
washed, sanctified and justified, (1Cor. 6:11)
accepted in the Beloved, (Eph. 1:6)
seated in the Heavenly with Christ, (Eph. 2:6)
and have direct access into the holiest of all in Christ, as Christ removed the veil that separated them from it, (Heb. 10:19)
and thus all believers would directly go to henceforth be with the Lord even if He returned in their lifetime, (1Ths. 4:17)
and otherwise are only clearly told - speaking of the afterlife - that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, (2Cor. 5:8; Phil. 1:23,24) even by one who said he was not yet perfect,
to join OT believers in the the heavenly Jerusalem including Samson who only waited for Christ's atonement to be there, (Heb. 11:32,40; 12:22,23) for faith in the Lord and His atonement places one there,
and who will put off this "body of death" (Rm. 7:24) "for he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:6-7)
Meanwhile, the only place of growth in grace spoken of is in this world,
which is not by simply suffering but by facing tests and trials of faith,
and likewise the only manifest salvific chastisement spoken of is in the here and "now for a season," (1Pt. 1:6)
while the only postmortem spoken of is at the judgment seat of Christ, which is at the return of the Lord. (1Cor. 3:8ff)
Why no just admit that purgatory is a tradition of men and stop trying to wrest Scripture in RC extrapolative attempts to support it?
Yet even EOs (which have their loose version of postmortem preparation) reject the fiery purgatory of Rome as being contrary to tradition:
with its sinful passions at death, Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,
►Both purgatory and indulgences are inter-corrolated theories, unwitnessed in the Bible or in the Ancient Church.. — http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7076
►The Orthodox Church does not believe in purgatory (a place of purging), that is, the inter-mediate state after death in which the souls of the saved (those who have not received temporal punishment for their sins) are purified of all taint preparatory to entering into Heaven, where every soul is perfect and fit to see God.
Also, the Orthodox Church does not believe in indulgences as remissions from purgatoral punishment. Both purgatory and indulgences are inter-corrolated theories, unwitnessed in the Bible or in the Ancient Church, and when they were enforced and applied they brought about evil practices at the expense of the prevailing Truths of the Church. If Almighty God in His merciful loving-kindness changes the dreadful situation of the sinner, it is unknown to the Church of Christ. The Church lived for fifteen hundred years without such a theory. — http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7076
OOps!
Luke 16:19-31
1 Jesus told his disciples:
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19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Apparently JESUS didn't know that a person can get prayed out of....