Posted on 09/27/2014 11:05:41 AM PDT by Gamecock
I've read some of their testimonies...The one thing they have in common is they never found Jesus where they were at, not that they were even looking...
Without Jesus, you are without the Holy Spirit...Without the Holy Spirit, the bible is no more than a historical, shallow book...
So you want to be a minister or whatever and you have a bible and it is written in 8th grade English but you can't seem to get anything out of it...So what do you need??? More education...
Education in the bible??? Nope, that's not attainable without the Holy Spirit...So then you have no choice but to turn to human philosophy...Likely if you are already in a bible rejecting church, you've already had numerous courses in human philosophy...You don't get anything from the bible but you need some wisdom...Man's wisdom...Man's wisdom teaches you that you can reason out under your own power to understand God...
You get educated right out of the simplicity of the scriptures...You learn religious history...Study up on the church fathers who agree with your human wisdom and knowledge...
That wisdom tells you that there couldn't possibly have been a worldwide flood...That's foolish...A guy in a whale for 3 days??? Bah... Aristotle would never approve...
They quit believing the bible or never did to begin with...
The bible clearly teaches what the church is...If Scott Hahn would have believed the word of God, he never could have become Catholic...
Short story is, these guys end up in a religion where humanist philosophy is King...That would be your religion...They're educated, self-made intellectuals and don't know a thing about God...And they fit right in...
Of course that's the very short story...
The average reader will note the irony of your post.
You keep saying “Without Jesus”…. but this is what former Protestant theologians call shallow thinking. Jesus commanded Peter and His successor to GO Teach. This is to teach ONE truth. On any given Sunday, you have Catholics celebrating the source and summit of their belief in Jesus with the Sacrifice of the Mass and the Eucharist. We have a Credo, and it doesn’t matter if you are in Timbuktu or Tokyo. University theological departments are filled with books on the Petrine authority.
This is why Catholicism draws on nobel laureates, scientists, astronomers, sculptors. and a stellar cast of theologians. Additionally, Catholicism has the greatest number of converts from every other religion in the planet including Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists and Rabbis. These folks aren’t shallow thinkers. For example, Bobby Jindal ditched his Hindu faith at much chagrin to his parents, and converted to Catholicism.
Outside the Church you have Biblical chaos. If you are a “Baptist” you can go to Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, AnaBaptist; or any number of different First Baptists, all providing their “own” interpretation of scripture. Some of it is lethal like the snake handlers in Appalachia or the followers of Jim Jones Jone or David Koresh.
Others like televangelist “Bishop” TD Jakes is pure entertainment, and Joel Osteen spins out Chinese fortune cookie sayings of scripture laced with cheap entertainment. They, like Billy Graham, Schullers, Tammy Faye Baker are all exponents of hollow preaching practices drawing upon audiences of the sort Oprah Winfrey attracts. The create a “personality of the cult,” reaping fortunes for themselves and their families.
The moment you take these shallow street preachers into to the deep end of theology pool they drown. No wonder Bible Christian are known as anti-intellectual.
You talk about the Holy Spirit, but it is the Holy Spirit that remains with the Church until the consummation of the world. You speak of “wisdom” but so did David Koresh. The Petrine authority helps us carry that wisdom through the ages.
It is no accident that several articles have been written about the utter shallowness of those Bible-Chrisitans with all their nonsense of born again stuff.
http://www.ukapologetics.net/13/shallow.htm
Yeah it’s easier to push a belief system if you post a bunch of names (over and over and over and over and over again) of the “bad guys” that don’t follow what you follow.
And you sure can mix apples and oranges, it seems you can’t tell them apart. Oh yeah, if they don’t follow and obey your pope they are all the same.
What ever you do, do NOT fall for that utter shallowness of those Bible-Chrisitans (sic) with all their nonsense of born again stuff.
Yeah, that born again nonsense “stuff” that was taught by ________.
(How many names can you post until you get to the source???)
Hint: it was before the popedum was created and before Mary became the central figure in the Catholic religion.
I opposed Peter to his face, because he was CLEARLY in the wrong.
OH?
Then WHY does your chosen religion act like only IT's members are 'the body of Christ'?
Oh?
I'd say that most here have played the party game that involves a statement whispered in the first person's ear, and then passed around the circle of players and then the last one will say the message out loud that they received.
Mary is dead.
The time and energy the haters spend here ranting against the Catholic Church could be better spent volunteering at a school or a food bank instead.
The time and energy the lovers spend here ranting FOR the Catholic Church could be better spent volunteering at a school or a food bank instead.
Oh?
That sinless, virginal, husband frustrating woman your chosen religion has created?
I doubt that Jesus cares much for your church's definition.
"Be fruitful and multiply."
All except you; Mary.
You've done enough.
Save your energy for listening to BILLIONS of prayers that are going to be directed your way.
Be sure to pass them to your obedient son, just the way you heard them.
Jesus said:
John 3:7
Jesus commanded Peter and His successor to GO Teach.
...nonsense of born again stuff.
Your beef is with Jesus who told us that we must be born again.
John 3:1-12 AND there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night, and said to him: Rabbi, we know that thou art come a teacher from God; for no man can do these signs which thou dost, unless God be with him. Jesus answered, and said to him:Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born again? Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit. Wonder not, that I said to thee, you must be born again. The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Nicodemus answered, and said to him: How can these things be done? Jesus answered, and said to him: Art thou a master in Israel, and knowest not these things? Amen, amen I say to thee, that we speak what we know, and we testify what we have seen, and you receive not our testimony. If I have spoken to you earthly things, and you believe not; how will you believe, if I shall speak to you heavenly things?
Catholics sure seem to have issues with obeying God's word. NO wonder they have such a tendency to dismiss it and put their tradition over it. That way they can justify doing whatever they feel like regardless of what God says.
James 2:1-13 My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him? But you have dishonored the poor man. Are not the rich the ones who oppress you, and the ones who drag you into court? Are they not the ones who blaspheme the honorable name by which you were called?
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
2 Corinthians 10:12 Not that we dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who are commending themselves. But when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding.
Romans 12:3-8 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.
Don't Catholics like to quote where Mary tells the servants at the wedding in Cana, "Do whatever He tells you.*?
Except rationalize away calling religious leaders by the title of *Father*.
Scott Hahn and others claim they didn't find Jesus til the ate the wafer in one of your churches...
Jesus commanded Peter and His successor to GO Teach. This is to teach ONE truth.
So what was THAT truth they were told to go preach??? And who were they to preach it to??? It certainly wasn't Catholics...They were told to preach to Jews only...Not Gentile Catholics...
Jesus told Paul to go preach to Catholics and all other Gentiles...And Paul was told to preach the gospel of the grace of God...What was it again Peter and the others were told to preach to all the world??? Oh, I remember, they were told to preach the gospel of the Kingdom...
This is why Catholicism draws on nobel laureates, scientists, astronomers, sculptors. and a stellar cast of theologians. Additionally, Catholicism has the greatest number of converts from every other religion in the planet including Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists and Rabbis. These folks aren’t shallow thinkers. For example, Bobby Jindal ditched his Hindu faith at much chagrin to his parents, and converted to Catholicism.
Well sure they did...The Catholic religion is a humanist religion...A feel good religion...Go back and ask any one of them if they trusted in Jesus Christ to be their Saviour...
Outside the Church you have Biblical chaos. If you are a “Baptist” you can go to Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, AnaBaptist; or any number of different First Baptists,
And every one of them will teach you how to get saved by Jesus Christ...
Some of it is lethal like the snake handlers in Appalachia or the followers of Jim Jones Jone or David Koresh.
And that only proves they are more honest than anyone in your religion...
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
That's the Catholic credo right there...But the real credo doesn't encompass just one or two verses...You guys are dishonest by leaving the rest of it out...And here it is...
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
When the Catholic religion goes into all the world to preach the gospel, there should be millions of poisonous snakes all over the place, if they were honest...
Others like televangelist “Bishop” TD Jakes is pure entertainment, and Joel Osteen spins out Chinese fortune cookie sayings of scripture laced with cheap entertainment. They, like Billy Graham, Schullers, Tammy Faye Baker are all exponents of hollow preaching practices drawing upon audiences of the sort Oprah Winfrey attracts.
Maybe they learned from your pope Francis...But hey, your religion has far more ungodly priests and bishops and cardinals than these few ungodly non Catholic preachers...But you know what the real comedy is; your current pope Francis recently got together with some of these shysters and somehow bonded with them...
The moment you take these shallow street preachers into to the deep end of theology pool they drown. No wonder Bible Christian are known as anti-intellectual.
Those you are referring to are not street preachers...
You talk about the Holy Spirit, but it is the Holy Spirit that remains with the Church until the consummation of the world.
Ya but you don't even know what the church is...I am the church...Christians are the church...That's what Jesus was referring to...Jesus will be with us individuals til the end of the age...
Um no, the Holy Spirit indwells individuals not groups or organizations.
Throwing out snippets of scripture is exactly what makes for shallow theology. You fret about throwing out names, but these are not ordinary names. They have studied, written, and taught “Protestant” theology for a lifetime to be considered eminent theologians by their own Protestant peers and now find it inherently absurd and shallow.
You have never offered one reason to explain the utter Biblical mess of Protestantism. Where on any given day three Protestants can differ on any given tract of Scripture. Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses too use scripture. The shallowness is evident in what the Osteens and Schullers have done to amass a financial fortune while throwing out Chinese fortune-cookie like notions of scripture mixed with a little bit of literal text, some feel good psychology, and of course entertainment. Born-again is more than nonsense, it has become a cheap fad among non-Christian Catholics.
The moment you engage your street preacher like Billy Graham or standard fare televangelist or the corner street pastor of First “This or That,” they cite scriptural passages completely out of context. Never mind that Petrine authority has been studied for centuries in colleges and universities around the world and validated by leading theologians across the religious spectrum, it still won’t make a difference to shallow street theologians. Never mind that a litany of saints, many stigmatists included have been saints or hundreds of Catholic martyrs who lived the Catholic faith.
If you want to see for yourself the hilarious absurdity of this shallowness, here’s your own thinking. Just think! See this response.
Steelfish: “Outside the Church you have Biblical chaos. If you are a “Baptist” you can go to Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, AnaBaptist; or any number of different First Baptists,”
Answer: And every one of them will teach you how to get saved by Jesus Christ...
Steelfish: “Some of it is lethal like the snake handlers in Appalachia or the followers of Jim Jones Jone or David Koresh.”
Answer:And that only proves they are more honest than anyone in your religion..
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Nothing further needs to be said.
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