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To: FourtySeven

I feel the same way.

Protestantism involves a serious retreat from belief in the Incarnation, manifested in denial of the Communion of Saints, hatred of relics, denial of most of the sacraments—centering on denial of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.

The temptation of Catholics is superstition.

The temptation of Protestants is atheism: denial of the action of grace through material instruments—the material elements used in the sacraments, the power of the saints to act on our behalf.

The Protestant emphasis on a God who is “wholly other,” who does not transform humans inwardly by grace, but only fictitiously declares us holy, who does not allow the blessed in heaven to act on earth, who does not come to us (as he promised to do in the gospel [John 6]) personally present in the Eucharist—the difference between such a “wholly other” God and no God is merely semantic.

The tendency of Protestantism to become atheist works itself out over time repeatedly, at differing rates, in the various denominations—denying the Immaculate Conception of Mary, the sinlessness of Mary, the Virginal Conception and Virgin Birth of Jesus, the true divinity of Christ (i.e. denying the WHOLE POINT of the Gospel of John), denying the Resurrection.


271 posted on 09/22/2014 6:00:48 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan; Iscool; metmom; boatbums; CynicalBear

It isn’t a retreat from relics, we’ve never had a need nor desire for their “assistance”, as catholics have said they do, for we heed what God has said...that you don’t use those things, or bow to them, or adorn, or worship them. Furthermore Christ Jesus is sufficient for us...just as HE has said that He is...and available to us at all times and seasons. ...Furthermore “Grace” comes ONLY through Jesus Christ and the Spirit He has given us......as is written......”MY Grace is sufficient for thee”.

Neither do we deny communion....we share with one another the bread and the wine as symbolic of what our Lord Jesus Christ has done and given us by His death, burial and resurrection.....Just as He said to do in “rememberance” of Him.....

Indeed.. we do deny completely catholicism’s Eucharist as the so called “Real Presence”...of course we deny it...... Jesus does not inhabit inanimate things....nor would He. He has given us His indwelling Spirit which is how he operates in and thru us while we are in this world.

And yes we deny what catholicism says is the communion of saints...we do not commune with the departed...again as it is written we are not communicate with the departed and calls it an abomination to him.

Much of your post reflects false accusations against ‘Protestants’ in order to construct “another” Gospel pathway and/or in addition to the one which is Biblical and of which we can trust.

catholicism IS all which it ‘adds’ to another Gospel then the one Jesus gave us.


277 posted on 09/22/2014 6:29:36 PM PDT by caww
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To: Arthur McGowan
The temptation of Protestants is atheism: denial of the action of grace through material instruments—the material elements used in the sacraments, the power of the saints to act on our behalf. Grace isn't accessed through material, physical objects.

It's accessed through faith.

Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

286 posted on 09/22/2014 7:23:06 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Arthur McGowan
Your following statement is wrong on so many levels.

The Protestant emphasis on a God who is “wholly other,” who does not transform humans inwardly by grace,

Ephesians 1:3-23 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

but only fictitiously declares us holy,

Not fictitiously but in reality.

Colossians 2:13-14 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

who does not allow the blessed in heaven to act on earth,

The Holy Spirit acts here on earth, convicting men of sin, righteousness, and judgment.

who does not come to us (as he promised to do in the gospel [John 6]) personally present in the Eucharist—the difference between such a “wholly other” God and no God is merely semantic.

Christ comes to us and lives in us through the Holy Spirit. We don't need to eat Jesus to have Him live in us.

299 posted on 09/22/2014 8:03:32 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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