Posted on 09/08/2014 3:44:25 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
When pressed for an answer to "Paying tithes was under the Law", some retort that Christians are required to pay tithes because Abraham's paying of tithes to Melchizedek preceded to Law.
In reply to that, do the scriptures say in Genesis chapter 14 that Abraham was compelled to pay tithes, or was it rather a free will tithe offering, unlike the compelled tithe that was enacted under the Law?
In Deuteronomy 14:26 (NIV), it says that those who attended a particular feast day that they could "...Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice. KJV ("...or for wine or for strong drink..." NASB: ("...or wine or strong drink...").
Since Deuteronomy 14:26 was under the Law, and the Law curse for not paying tithes is listed again in Malachi chapter 3, is one cursed, too, for not agreeing to buy wine or strong drink, say Saturday before one pays tithes on Sunday? If one is not compelled to do Deut. 14:26, does one commit sin if they (with their free will) still want to buy strong drink or less strong wine?
If tithes preceded the Law, and no curse is listed if Abraham did not pay tithes to Melchizedek, then it would seem that the curse is limited strictly to the Law (Old Covenant) and not under the New Covenant.
There would seem to only be blessing for paying tithes, but no curse for not doing so today...
I’m of the opinion that there are many things in the Bible that say more than what they’re directly referring to. Maybe that’s naive and just wishful thinking, but it is a pretty deep book.
I don’t mind the passing of the bucket, it is good to give offerings if you are so prompted and to support the mission the church. I take issue with the guilt trip as you describe it and any hint of legalism in giving. My wife says that I radiate every time someone mentions the word “tithe” in church and she is right...it is legalism and designed to instill guilt.
I appreciate your desire to refrain from reinstituting a ‘law’. I tried to do the same in my own post that you commented on.
However, when Jesus in the gospels speaks of truth deeper than law — for example: love, mercy, forgiveness, justice — then He is addressing issues of GRACE, and that places the discussion in the context of the post-resurrection Church.
So, when He says (prior to the cross) “a new command I give unto you...” He is already speaking to post-resurrection concerns.
Considering the Lord is in charge of our next breath . . .I’d opt for the 10% tithe and then some more for the offering. . . . off the top.
Everything is His anyway. Think about it. All He asks is for us to be thankful and provide 10% and then he promises he will bless us. . .however, we shouldn’t give to get. . .but we should give with a cheerful heart out of our love for the Lord.
In a word, no. However, if you follow Christ, you will sacrifice all you have to his will and, sometimes, that means money. Personally, I never give to organizations. I give to needs I see all around me.
I heard one of the big name radio preachers talk about this several years ago (I think it was David Jeremiah but not sure). He said the 10% tithe is not a requirement today - the Spirit will lead us as to the amount. So as long as you are obedient to the Spirit you are OK. I have followed this for many years now. We have been giving more than 10% net, less than gross.
Agreed.
Though I still want(ed) or need(ed) things, things that that money could buy, I was/am happy to give it.
the answer is no...tithes were called for when the church took care of the indigent, women and children, the handicapped etc...now the gov’t does most of that. While you may continue to budget 10% for the poor, remember to include a portion of your taxes in the figures...
I hate to say it, but I think you've hit upon what drives a lot of the "anti-tithing" mentality.
People justify not tithing so that they can spend it on themselves. "It's MY money, I'll do what I like with it. Maybe I'll give some or maybe I won't."
Completely unscriptural and ungodly attitude. God says that it is ALL His - we merely have what we have on stewardship.
Yes, you are right. Is it difficult at times to pay it ?
Yes, of course, and those are the very times that it is doing you the most good. The whole Christian walk is a continuing struggle to grow in Christ. Everything you do that diminishes self helps Him become more in you.
The more difficult the challenge- and the sacrificing of our finances is right up there- the more the loosening of the grip of selfdom. Then, The more room for His kingdom.
As others have stated, under the New Covenant Jesus gave basically two commands: Love the Lord God with all of your heart, soul, mind, strength and love your neighbor as yourself. After you that... you can do whatever you like ;- ) In this new covenant relationship, what Christ has is ours and what we have is his. Each gets to ask the other when it’s needed. He always gets the last word since he is our Creator, Redeemer and who’s purposes and wisdom are higher than we can understand. It is enough, he said, for us to be like our Master - as you cannot be greater. Giving is really a heart issue. If Jesus has your heart you won’t have a problem with giving anything you have (time, talent, resources - and, yes, sometimes your life) for His Kingdom and purposes. What’s in your heart? Is it divided? Jesus said that those who have been forgiven much, love much. We all deserve eternal separation from a Holy God. It’s whether we “believe” and “see” our sin as great or not. If we feel we weren’t that bad we might be guilty of loving little. Jesus also warned us to lay up true riches in heaven. The stuff here has a way of going bad ;- )
Sir, you are not paying attention.
Look at Malachi 2:1 - “And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.” Malachi 3:3 - “And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver and He shall purify the sons of Levi (i.e., the priesthood)...” Beyond that, the common people did not bring ANYTHING into the storehouse; that was uniquely the job of the priests (Nehemiah 10:38, “And the priest, the son of Aaron, shall be with the Levites when the Levites receive tithes, and the Levites shall bring up a tenth of the tithes to the house of our God to the chambers of the storehouse.”). Nowhere in scripture do we find the ordinary people bringing a tithe into the storehouse. This fourth type of tithe applied only to the priests.
It goes deeper than that. To fully comprehend the Bible (and I don’t, but I try harder than most) you have to look at how the Hebrews understood it. They’ve been working that ground for a long, long time! A common mistake made by many Christians is to overlook how the language is used. It is more precise than most imagine. Sometimes you have to tie a few things together that don’t, at first, seem related. Moses Maimonides’ “A Guide for the Perplexed” is full of surprising things.
So, you pass the basket around and collect the money, then at the end of the home service, you all take your money back out of the basket and return it to your wallet?
Actually, that would be to my wife's wallet. However, not all the money goes back to our wallet. We support the Salvation Army.
If you can't tithe joyfully; don't.
Churches should be taxed btw, with heavy deductions for charitable enterprises. If a Church is giving after expenses then the tax rate could be deducted to 0%. In this political climate, it is better to criticized our Reps directly than to stay silent with threat of losing your tax exemption.
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