[CTrent1564]

metmom:

The misuse of the term Father. God is the Creator and source of everything, thus in that Context, God is Father. But the term Father can refer to a Father of a nation [Abraham, Issac, David of the OT] were Fathers of the Jewish People in so much as they were chosen by God to be and cooperated with God in that fashion. Does not negate God as Father by calling each of them Father, which the NT does. A Father is also a biological term and God clearly had no problem allowing the use of the term as he commanded Honor thy Father. Saint Paul was a spiritual Father to the Churches he guided and pastored, again cooperating with God who is still God the Father, yet God works with and through human experiences and thus Saint Paul was a Father in a certain Context.

Mt 23:9 does state call no man Father, it also says do not call anyone teacher. Yet, later, In Mt 28:19-20 Christ commands his Apostles to do what, “teach” and who teaches, a “teacher” Saint Paul in 1 Timothy actually dares to call himself what? “a teacher”, along with apostle [1 Timothy 2:7].

So now we have Saint Paul calling himself 1)Father and 2) Teacher, both of which were referred to back in Mt 23.

So now Saint Paul is guilty of 2 Heresies? Calling himself “father” and “teacher”, if I were to use Fundie sola ego meo interpretation principles that you FR prots hold to. Of course, I don’t and never will.

[Springfield Reformer]

Sorry, but you’ve now gone fully off the rails. Paul is a didaskolos, a teacher, but that is not only not a forbidden ecclesiastical title, it is a gift of the Holy Spirit given to some in the assembly for the edification of all. What Jesus prohibits are honorifics like “rabbi,” which actually means something more like “great one,” not “teacher.” It’s these lord high muckety muck titles that Jesus prohibits, not terms of natural relationship. An adjective is not a title unless everyone is expected to say it as part of your name. Such titles in the church foster pride and even idolatry, which Augustine himself understood to be the meaning of this passage. Google it.

But your strategy is the real problem here. First you make the category bigger than it really is, then you discredit it because of your alleged “obvious” infractions by Paul or whoever, and at the end of the sequence you have a command you can give lip service to, but which has no practical effect, because everybody gets to keep their honorific titles despite a plain command of Christ to the contrary. Brilliant!

Again, its your business what choices you make for yourself. As for me, I would never advise anyone to disregard a clear command of Christ, least of all because some institution says I can. Risky business.

Peace,

SR

[metmom]

So, IOW, just because you think that some people may have disobeyed a clear, direct COMMAND of Jesus, that it’s OK for everyone to?

Is that how a free pass to sin works?

Gee, David committed adultery and murdered Bathsheba’s husband to try to cover it up. Just because he did, does that mean it’s OK for everyone else to as well?

[Elsie]

Matthew 23:1-12 

1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, ² saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. ³ Therefore whatever they tell you to observe,^[a] that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. ⁴ For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. ⁵ But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. ⁶ They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, ⁷ greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ ⁸ But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ,^[b] and you are all brethren. ⁹ Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. ¹⁰ And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. ¹¹ But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. ¹² And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

 

 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, ⁷ greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’

HMMMmmm...