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To: Elsie

Elsie:

Like I said, the topic of the thread was related to the Sunday readings that every Catholic heard at Mass/Liturgy this past Sunday, which was Isiah 22 [the Keys prefiguration] and Mt 16:16-18.

God is the only one who saves, and he saves thru Christ and The Holy Spirit and the Church is the instrument that Christ founded and formed to bring humanity into communion with Him and others. The CCC is out there that goes into this, no need for me to go into it here so that is the readers digest basis. Now what happens to those who are “outside of the Church”, well that is posited positively to say for those not in perfect communion with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, God does and can use the Church, which is a visible sign of his presence here on earth [So not some Gnostic ecclesiology here from the Catholic perspective] to save those are not fully in communion. So yes, in reference to the well stated theological axiom of the Church Fathers, outside the Church there is no salvation, there have been statements as to what precisely that means [and you will get theologians who have different opinions] but in the end theologians do not in and of themselves define doctrine, they help the Church define it.

So I said more than maybe I thought I would but you asked a question, there is my brief reply. The Catholic Church doesn’t hide what it believes, the CCC is right there online for those interested in further study and reflection on that question.


373 posted on 08/27/2014 8:42:06 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: CTrent1564
Like I said, the topic of the thread was related to the Sunday readings that every Catholic heard at Mass/Liturgy this past Sunday, which was Isiah 22 [the Keys prefiguration] and Mt 16:16-18.

I don't know about the TOPIC, but the TITLE is: If No One Is Pope, Everyone is Pope

409 posted on 08/27/2014 7:27:32 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: CTrent1564
God is the only one who saves, and he saves thru Christ and The Holy Spirit and the Church is the instrument that Christ founded and formed to bring humanity into communion with Him and others.

I'm quite sure that you believe this; but...

2 Corinthians 5:18-21

18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

HMMMmmm...

Nothing about 'church' here.

419 posted on 08/28/2014 3:35:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: CTrent1564
God is the only one who saves, and he saves thru Christ and The Holy Spirit and the Church is the instrument that Christ founded and formed to bring humanity into communion with Him and others.

Others?


420 posted on 08/28/2014 3:36:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: CTrent1564
The Catholic Church doesn’t hide what it believes, the CCC is right there online for those interested in further study and reflection on that question>

Perhaps; but it does a REAL good job of 'hiding' the plain meaning of Scripture in places.

421 posted on 08/28/2014 3:38:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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