[boatbums]

That is the message that they reject! They want nothing to do with Yehova’s commandments, and wish to receive instantaneous, guaranteed salvation, without the obedience part. They even have the guile to redefine obedience as “Dead Works.” They even redefine Grace to be that bizarre offer. .

Moment of truth here, michaelwlf3. Do you fall in with the works-based salvation of false religions or do you preach salvation by grace through faith apart from works? What IS your Gospel?

[michaelwlf3]

“Moment of truth here, michaelwlf3.”

I follow Jesus. Learn what he believed and you’ll know what I believe.

[Cronos]

Bb -- no one says works-based salvation in the sense that you can utterly save yourself with your works

Let's read through what m and e-s said

m >> “You can “trust” him all you want to, but until you repent and turn from your wicked ways, there will be no reconciliation.” << --> that says trust, but also stop sinning. Go and sin no more. Nothing about works-based salvation. M did not say "stop sinning, but don't trust God and you'll be saved"

e-d That is the message that they reject! They want nothing to do with Yehova’s commandments, and wish to receive instantaneous, guaranteed salvation, without the obedience part. They even have the guile to redefine obedience as “Dead Works.” They even redefine Grace to be that bizarre offer. . --> What I read in this is that e-s is saying one should trust, utterly believe in God's grace, but there is also obedience to God's commandments. He says both are necessary

The key I see here is AND --> both M and e-s say "yes, God's grace is the paramount thing AND He asks us to obey and repent" -- why not ask them directly if they believe that just doing good works will save you -- they will categorically deny that, I'm sure

[Cronos]

metmom " the wide variety of denominations I've attended over the year" -- prove it :)

But ok, wide variety...why the changes? What beliefs did they espouse that attracted and then repelled?