Why do Protestant lay people hate clergy?

[michaelwlf3]

I am coming up on my first year as an ordained minister in a continuing Anglican church, and I have noticed that participating on political forums (even when the topic is religious) I find that my opinions and postings more often than not generate more hatred than anything else. Among the things I often hear are that the laity are the real priests and that I am a Pharisee, that my vocation disqualifies me from offering an opinion on anything Christian because I am too narrow minded, and (my personal favorite) because I look too Catholic I must be a child molester.

Are these people really Christians?

[Elsie]

Verse 18?

“Are you so dull?” he asked.

[metmom]

Then I suppose your position is that Christ's crucifixion profited nothing?

I have never met anyone who is so good at making presumptions at what others say as Catholics.

They can come to conclusions so unrelated to the topic at hand that it really leaves one wondering what pathways of thought are being used.

It's small wonder that Catholics believe that they cannot understand Scripture without someone telling them what it means.

If what I see here on FR is an example of how Catholics interpret Scripture, they probably really are better off letting someone else do it for them.

And lest I be accused of not answering the question, no, that is not my position. My position is that eating a piece of wheat bread that someone claims is Jesus' body does not impart spiritual life because spiritual life comes from the Spirit, as Jesus said.

Yes, and just as the Spirit of God gave life to Man, infused him with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, So God gave life to the Eucharist and commanded us to Eat.

There is not any Scripture that supports that nor is there any mention of the word *eucharist* in the Bible.

[Elsie]

I expect more from Catholics than I do from non-Catholics.

Evidently; so does GOD...

;^)

[metmom]

Is that so? I don't see an attempt to take credit for another's work, which is one of the required elements for plagiarism.

Simply not attributing it leaves the impression that it is one's own work.

Nice attempt as weaseling out of the charge, which is accurate, but dan owes no one any apology.

If people want to avoid the charge of plagiarism, then they need to attribute the work.

[Elsie]

I avoid posting on the religion threads where our differences are the main topic.

Just stay on the caucus threads.

No one THERE has to contend for their faith; just be good at giving high fives all day long; assuring each other that THEY are right; and avoiding; scrupulously; saying ANYTHING about any OTHER faith that may differ.

[evangmlw]

Let me first say that all Protestants are not necessarily true Christians. What true Christians despise is man-made religion, and every false way (which God Himself hates). True Christians are particularly not fond of that which “holds to a form of godliness, while denying its power” (2 Timothy 3:5). Now I’m not saying that you fall into this category, I don’t know you, nor what you believe. I’m simply sharing with you what I know and have observed of “professing Christianity” over a period of some 49 years. I am an active, ordained Southern Baptist, who currently pastors a church.

[bramps]

three times over the last nine-and-a-half years.
..................................................

That is not OFTEN. Thanks for proving my point. (Also doesn’t sound like you would label it ‘your personal favorite’. Do you agree that the poster labeling being called a ‘child molester’ as his ‘personal favorite’ criticism is a little perverse?)

[editor-surveyor]

>> “ the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.” <<

.

[Elsie]

TRUTH is not different, just because they’re united against Catholicism.

Not just Catholics; but ANY group that states that the bible is just not adequate enough to get men saved: JW's, Mormons...

pick ANY that relies heavily from extra-biblical 'revelation'...

[Elsie]

“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “

Huh???

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What do the prots NEED to do, to be considered good little mackeral snappers?

[Elsie]

You guys just CANNOT get past what the test SAYS; can you!?!?

---

Matthew 16:13-18

 

 

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"  

They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."  

"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"  

Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."  

Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.   And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades  will not overcome it.    I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

 

 

[editor-surveyor]

>> “ What true Christians despise is man-made religion, and every false way (which God Himself hates)” <<

.
Like the pre-trib rapture?

Like “Eternal Security?”

Like Sunday worship?

Like Christmas?

Like Easter?

It’s not Protestants Vs. Catholics, Its the Whore and her daughters Vs. the few that find his narrow gate.
.
.

[Elsie]

Then how do you explain the wide variety of Protestant interpretations of Scripture.

Why should I have to?

Any more than you should 'explain' why there are so many catholics who disagree with proclamations that emanate from Rome from time to time.

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Uniting agains Catholics is no proof that any particular Protestant interpretation is more accurate.

Uniting agains(t) Protestants is no proof that the Catholic interpretation is more accurate.

[Elsie]

Not “Only”.

Oh?

Then just where and how can the HS work OTHER than thru Rome's church?

[editor-surveyor]

Just think what you could do if the Bible were just a bunch of Scrabble tiles...
.

[Elsie]

No room in there to insert interpretations!

Seems like the Tower of Babel effect is STILL in force!

[Elsie]

God is not the God of confusion, there is only ONE truth, not 33,000 or what ever the number is this week.Then someone should tell Francis to QUIT saying things that obviously confuse SO many Catholics these days!

[Elsie]

Thank you, I try to ignore the scurrilous comments of the flotsam and jetsam that seem to permeate these waters.

Mary is dead; and in a grave; somewhere...

[Elsie]

CerealBoy NEVER lets us down!

[Elsie]

Only one church has been in continuous existence since apostolic times.

Number Five...

---

Logical fallacies hide the truth, so pointing them out is very useful.

 

1. Ad Hominem - Attacking the individual instead of the argument.
Example: You are so stupid your argument couldn't possibly be true.
Example: I figured that you couldn't possibly get it right, so I ignored your comment.

 

2. Appeal to Force - Telling the hearer that something bad will happen to him if he does not accept the argument.
Example: If you don't want to get beaten up, you will agree with what I say.
Example: Convert or die.
 
3. Appeal to Pity - Urging the hearer to accept the argument based upon an appeal to emotions, sympathy, etc.
Example: You owe me big time because I really stuck my neck out for you.
Example: Oh come on, I've been sick. That's why I missed the deadline.

 

4. Appeal to the Popular - Urging the hearer to accept a position because a majority of people hold to it.
Example: The majority of people like soda. Therefore, soda is good.
Example: Everyone else is doing it. Why shouldn't you?

 

5. Appeal to Tradition - Trying to get someone to accept something because it has been done or believed for a long time.
Example: This is the way we've always done it. Therefore, it is the right way.
Example: The Catholic church's tradition demonstrates that this doctrine is true.
 
6. Begging the Question - Assuming the thing to be true that you are trying to prove. It is circular.
Example: God exists because the Bible says so. The Bible is inspired. Therefore, we know that God exists.
Example: I am a good worker because Frank says so. How can we trust Frank? Simple: I will vouch for him.

 

7. Cause and Effect - Assuming that the effect is related to a cause because the events occur together.
Example: When the rooster crows, the sun rises. Therefore, the rooster causes the sun to rise.
Example: When the fuel light goes on in my car, I soon run out of gas. Therefore, the fuel light causes my car to run out of gas.
 
8. Circular Argument - See Begging the Question
Fallacy of Division - Assuming that what is true of the whole is true for the parts.
Example: That car is blue. Therefore, its engine is blue.
Example: Your family is weird. That means that you are weird too.

 

9. Fallacy of Equivocation - Using the same term in an argument in different places but the word has different meanings.
Example: A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Therefore, a bird is worth more than President Bush.
Example: Evolution states that one species can change into another. We see that cars have evolved into different styles. Therefore, since evolution is a fact in cars, it is true in species.

 

10. False Dilemma - Giving two choices when in actuality there could be more choices possible.
Example: You either did knock the glass over or you did not. Which is it? (Someone else could have knocked the glass over)
Example: Do you still beat your wife?

 

11. Genetic Fallacy - Attempting to endorse or disqualify a claim because of the origin or irrelevant history of the claim.
Example: The Nazi regime developed the Volkswagen Beetle. Therefore, you should not buy a VW Beetle because of who started it.
Example: Frank just got out of jail last year; since it was his idea to start the hardware store, I can't trust him.

 

12. Guilt by Association - Rejecting an argument or claim because the person proposing it likes someone whom is disliked by another.
Example: Hitler liked dogs. Therefore dogs are bad.
Example: Your friend is a thief. Therefore, I cannot trust you.

 

13. Non Sequitur - Comments or information that do not logically follow from a premise or the conclusion.
Example: We know why it rained today: because I washed my car.
Example: I don't care what you say. We don't need any more bookshelves. As long as the carpet is clean, we are fine.

 

14. Poisoning the Well - Presenting negative information about a person before he/she speaks so as to discredit the person's argument.
Example: Frank is pompous, arrogant, and thinks he knows everything. So, let's hear what Frank has to say about the subject.
Example: Don't listen to him because he is a loser.

 

15. Red Herring - Introducing a topic not related to the subject at hand.
Example: I know your car isn't working right. But, if you had gone to the store one day earlier, you'd not be having problems.
Example: I know I forgot to deposit the check into the bank yesterday. But, nothing I do pleases you.

 

16. Special Pleading (double standard) - Applying a standard to another that is different from a standard applied to oneself.
Example: You can't possibly understand menopause because you are a man.
Example: Those rules don't apply to me since I am older than you.

 

17. Straw Man Argument - Producing an argument about a weaker representation of the truth and attacking it.
Example: The government doesn't take care of the poor because it doesn't have a tax specifically to support the poor.
Example: We know that evolution is false because we did not evolve from monkeys.

 

18. Category Mistake - Attributing a property to something that could not possibly have that property. Attributing facts of one kind are attributed to another kind. Attributing to one category that which can only be properly attributed to another.

Example: Blue sleeps faster than Wednesday.
Example: Saying logic is transcendental is like saying cars would exist if matter didn't.