Posted on 07/23/2014 8:15:29 AM PDT by Gamecock
All of us will, at times, be called to endure humbly a leader’s mistakes and sins. Nonetheless, should you find yourself in a church where the leadership is characteristically abusive, I would, in most cases, encourage you to flee. Flee to protect your discipleship, to protect your family, to set a good example for the members left behind, to serve non-Christian neighbors by not lending credibility to the church’s ministry.
How do you recognize abusive leadership? Paul requires two witnesses for a charge to be leveled against an elder (1 Tim. 5:19), probably because he knows that leaders will be charged with infelicities more often than others, often unfairly. That said, abusive churches and Christian leaders characteristically
-Make dogmatic prescriptions in places where Scripture is silent.
-Rely on intelligence, humor, charm, guilt, emotions, or threats rather than on God’s Word and prayer (see Acts 6:4).
-Play favorites.
-Punish those who disagree.
-Employ extreme forms of communication (tempers, silent treatment).
-Recommend courses of action which always, somehow, improves the leader’s own situation, even at the expense of others.
-Speak often and quickly.
-Seldom do good deeds in secret.
-Seldom encourage.
-Seldom give the benefit of the doubt.
-Emphasize outward conformity, rather than repentance of heart.
-Preach, counsel, disciple, and oversee the church with lips that fail to ground everything in what Christ has done in the gospel and to give glory to God.
One of the nicest things a Catholic has ever said to me!
I think we are probably on the same page in our view of what the assembly of the body of Christ really is. My point of contention with modern understanding of the word “church” is that it has been corrupted to mean things not intended by the word used in scripture. I agree that having a building to regularly meet is not contrary but calling it the “lord’s house” or “house of God” is contrary to scripture. That’s why I urge people to study what the word used in the Greek really means rather than simply take the modern understanding of the word “church”.
“If he will not listen to THE church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.” —Jesus
Jesus could only be speaking of His Church, THE Church.
Churches, and religions in general, are distinguished by doctrine and practice.
This church would have to possess a non-contradictory body of doctrine for its decisions to be universally applicable.
It would have to be visible. It’s impossible for an invisible church to adjudicate disputes.
My pleasure, I have said it on numerous occasions here and I will have cause to say it again I’m sure.
I can’t stand the modern hostility toward systematic theology, toward taking out the doctrinal scalpel and saying we mean THIS and not THIS. Theological definition is important. Calvinists get it. Few others do.
I do not believe we are supposed to submit to a church. We are supposed to submit to God/Jesus
interesting list
Roman Catholicism.
Reading comprehension classes could be a huge help for that.
OK. Here you go.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
The good works are for us to do after we're saved not to help earn our salvation.
The good works are for us to do after we're saved not to help earn our salvation.
Is that actually being argued? Our salvation is a free gift from God, every Catholic should know this, surely there's just a communication breakdown somewhere.
If my son told me he didn’t have to submit to me, just Jesus, would he be right? Do wives not have to submit to their husbands, just Jesus?
We shouldn’t make exceptions in the ecclesiastical sphere that we don’t make in other areas of life. We have to submit to Jesus and to the ecclesiastical authorities that Jesus puts over us. I think that’s clear from Matt 18:
“And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen and a publican.”
I know that and you know that. But try convincing a Jehovah's Witness of that, especially when the word can be found nowhere, and there are passages that seem to say the opposite ("my Father is greater than me"). Most everyone who argues against the Trinity does so from Scripture.
Scripture is not as glaringly obvious as many people think it is.
The JWs do not argue from the scripture necessarily. They remake scripture to fit their purposes by such as John 1:1, making the Word "a god," for no legitimate reason. When it comes to cultists, or anyone really, the problem isn't a lack of facts, which can always be provided even when they lack them, it is spiritual darkness that only the Holy Spirit can break through. We can only do our part by telling the truth, which always comes to our side.
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