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The heretical nature of the Mormonic god and other doctrines is quite clear.

I'm not trying to be a Mormon apologist but only God knows who he will and will not save. Within the original context of the sub-thread, I find no scriptural basis for believing salvation to be based upon acceptance of the Trinity. If a person's interpretation of scripture causes them to reject the Trinity, that doesn't mean they aren't saved.

If a person's interpretation of scripture causes them to reject the Trinity, that doesn't mean they aren't saved.

You may be correct; but MORMONismn ADDS a LOT of things that WILL keep a LOT of people from 'being saved'.

If a person's interpretation of scripture causes them to reject the Trinity, that doesn't mean they aren't saved.

What Joseph Smith Means to Us (From: various sources )

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

If a person's interpretation of scripture causes them to reject the Trinity, that doesn't mean they aren't saved.

One can be confused, but for one, i do not believe one can be saved who denies the deity of Christ, which one implicitly does in trusting Him to give them eternal life, as that is one of many uniquely Divine attributes Christ possesses, as having the same nature, though there is an order in the Godhead.

See The DEITY of CHRIST by God's grace.

Thus to deny the Divine nature of Christ is to blaspheme God, as that would be ascribing uniquely Divine attributes to a created being, which is what the Jewish leaders saw the Lord Jesus as doing. And would have been right if He was not God manifest in the flesh.

Likewise the Spirit is obviously Divine, while that He is a person is sufficiently clear.

Thus while the doctrine of the Trinity was not formally defined till latter, it was essentially taught and believed before and thus it is Scripturally substantiated, which is why the same evangelicals who contend against Cath. traditions of men also contend for basic doctrine of the Trinity, .

Back from the dead. I had installed a Firefox extension called "Lazarus ," which saves text written in comboxes as this, and searching therein (R. click, Recover Text) i found my reply, praise God, and so here it is, with some additions.

Please cite the verse that you believe makes it clear that one verse is what makes a doctrine to be a clear and present reality in the scripture.

Do you deny John 3:16?

No, yet this example refutes your premise, as this one verse by itself does not teach who and what this Son is, and what "believing" in Him means, and by itself would support demons being saved because they believe Christ is the Son of God.

But contrary your single text hermenutic, i see Jn. 1:1 teaches the Word (Christ: v. 14) is God, and Divine attributes and worship being ascribed to Him, (Heb. 1 etc.) and "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost," (Matthew 28:19) and "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all," (2 Corinthians 13:14) as teaching a Divine unity of persons, and defining the one God who said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness," (Gn. 1:26).

So just as more than one verse is necessary to understand what Jn. 3:16 teaches, so more than one is what makes a doctrine to be a clear and present reality in the scripture.

For even an explicit text by itself does not necessarily establish a doctrine, as the totality of Scripture needs to be examined, and covenantal distinctions examined. This is why theology is necessary. Is lying always wrong? Was/is polygamy wrong? Would you support cannibalism as a normal consensual practice (you die first, we have you for dinner...).

I believe doctrine should be based on a body of scripture but where is the body of scripture establishing the Holy Spirit as a distinct divinity like God the Father and Christ?

That is easy, for as with the Deity of Christ, it is impossible that He be not Divine ) leaving one alternative, that He does not have personhood.

But first, what we do not find of course is texts showing worshiping the Holy Spirit and praying to Him, since the Spirit is the one who inspires both, but He points to the Head and the One whom He inspired in expressing the Head.

Yet He reveals His unity with the Father and the Son in such texts as Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14, and by worshiping the Father and the Son then one is worshiping the Spirit.

Moreover, perhaps no where is His deity and personhood more revealed than in the teaching that,

All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. (Matthew 12:31-32)

Here reverence of the Spirit is supremely required, and even in distinction from the Father and the Son.

Further as regards Deity, the aforementioned texts as Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 uniquely teach a unity of 3 persons, as constituting the "Lord," ("Now the Lord is that Spirit" (2Cor. 3:16).

In addition, in no place is any creative activity ascribed to any created being, yet,

The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. (Job 33:4)

By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. (Psalms 33:6)

Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. (Psalms 104:30)

Note that the word for "Spirit" is also that for "breath," and thus it can be argued that such terms as this ("oil" etc.) only refer to an instrument of God, yet the Son of God is also called by such, being the "arm" (Is. 53:1) by whom God made the worlds, (Heb. 1:2) and "lamb" (Jn. 1:29) etc. of God. But we understand the Son to be a Divine person as personhood is also clearly ascribed to Him.

And concerning both "arm" and "breath," we see in the OT in the context of "To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?" (Isaiah 40:18):

Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young. (Isaiah 40:10-11)

Thus the "arm" of the Lord is the part of God, and one who shall feed his flock like a shepherd, (Jn. 10), and next,

Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? (Isaiah 40:13-14)

Here the "breath" is understood as the Spirit as part of God, and we read in the NT:

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. (1 Corinthians 2:10-12)

It is hardly tenable to hold that the "breath" of God does this.

More can be shown as regards Divine attributes, but in addition are texts which speak of the Holy Spirit as being a person.

As seen above, rather than just being an instrumental appendage of God who cannot make decisions, the Spirit "searches" all things.

Also,

But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. (1 Corinthians 12:11)

While like the Son, the Spirit always does the will of the Father, yet both have a will they exercise in doing so.

And as i am very exhausted, let me post from a web site for more:

Numerous verses say that the Holy Spirit spoke (Acts 8:29; 10:19; 11:12; 21:11; 1 Timothy 4:1; Hebrews 3:7; etc.). Oden observes that “the Spirit speaks in the first person as ‘I’; ‘It was I who sent them’ (Acts 10:20)…. ‘I have called them’ (Acts 13:2). None but a person can say ‘I’” (The Living God, p. 200).

2. Interaction: The Spirit may be lied to (Acts 5:3), which indicates that the Spirit may be spoken to. The Spirit may be tested (Acts 5:9), insulted (Hebrews 10:29) or blasphemed (Matthew 12:31), which implies personal status. Oden gathers additional evidence: “The apostolic testimony applied intensely personal analogies: guiding (Romans 8:14), convicting (John 16:8), interceding (Romans 8:26), calling (Acts 13:2), commissioning (Acts 20:28)…. Only a person can be vexed (Isaiah 63:10) or grieved (Ephesians 4:30)” (Life in the Spirit, p. 19).

3. Paraclete: Jesus called the Holy Spirit the parakletos — the Comforter, Advocate or Counselor. The Paraclete is active, teaching (John 14:26), testifying (15:26), convicting (16:8), guiding (16:13) and making truth known (16:14).

Jesus used the masculine form of parakletos; he did not consider it necessary to make the word neuter or to use neuter pronouns. In John 16:14, masculine pronouns are used even after the neuter pneuma is mentioned. It would have been easy to switch to neuter pronouns, but John did not. In other places, neuter pronouns are used for the Spirit, in accordance with grammatical convention. Scripture is not finicky about the grammatical gender of the Spirit, and we need not be either. We use personal pronouns for the Spirit to acknowledge that he is personal, not to imply that he is male. -http://www.gci.org/God/deityHS

That's all for now.