Posted on 06/29/2014 3:20:21 PM PDT by ebb tide
“I can only say that the communists have stolen our flag. The flag of the poor is Christian. Poverty is at the center of the Gospel,” he said, citing Biblical passages about the need to help the poor, the sick and the needy.
Thank you, marshmallow. I’ll not give the answer away. Instead, I’ll point out that the very text you quote says that before capitalism working people lived better lives. This is factually incorrect. The statement is another proof that the pope, if he is infallible in matters of faith and morals, doesn’t have a clue as to where faith and morals leave off, and where science and history prevail. Before capitalism, the masses of people lived at the edge of subsistence. This condition was called “the Iron Law of Wages.” Then, with capitalism, things changed. Check out the link I provide below. The lives of the masses of people improved greatly. The pope who said what you quoted was as wrong as the pope who denied that there are moons about Jupiter.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_GuvqAqJmGHc/S6oVj7CuGiI/AAAAAAAAAbA/hcVlvnJFC4Q/s400/clarkgraph.png
Are you claiming Pope Leo XIII is the father of Communism, which Pope Francis is praising as a model?
The flag was never stolen; it was voluntarily handed over by Pope John XXIII under no duress.
No, Pope Leo XIII was not the "father of communism" and I'm not suggesting he was. But thanks for proving my point. It could be construed as class war rhetoric, couldn't it?
Which leads to my actual point. I'm suggesting that if Pope Francis had written this, you'd be all over him like a rash.
Be honest.
LOL.
I wonder how the late Cardinal Mindszenty would have reacted to this to say nothing of the multitude of Christians tortured and murdered the world over at the hands of communists.
The above is from Pope Paul VI's address to the United Nations General Assembly, October 4, 1965.
Here's another excerpt from the same address:
The peoples of the earth turn to the United Nations as the last hope of concord and peace. We presume to present here, together with Our own, their tribute to honour and of hope. That is why this moment is a great one for you also. We know that you are fully aware of this. Now for the continuation of Our message. It looks entirely towards the future. The edifice which you have constructed must never collapse; it must be continually perfected and adapted to the needs which the history of the world will present. You mark a stage in the development of mankind; from now on retreat is impossible; you must go forward.
Francis is no Leo XIII. Stop kidding yourself.
You'll happily accept the writing presented in post #75 because it comes from the pen of Leo XIII (paragraph #3 from the encyclical Rerum Novarum for those wondering).
If Francis had written the same lines you'd have a conniption fit.
True?
As the old Hertz commercials used to say...not exactly.
I think you have it backwards. There's more in Matthews's Gospel and less in Luke's Gospel.
“There is more than just Matthew’s Gospel.”
True, but interpreting Luke by ignoring Matthew is a poor path to understanding.
“The correct answer will be given in tomorrow’s class.”
Pope Leo XIII on 15 May 1891, Rights and Duties of Capital and Labor.
“As regards the State, the interests of all, whether high or low, are equal. The members of the working classes are citizens by nature and by the same right as the rich; they are real parts, living the life which makes up, through the family, the body of the commonwealth. ... therefore the public administration must duly and solicitously provide for the welfare and the comfort of the working classes; otherwise, that law of justice will be violated which ordains that each man shall have his due.”
Positive proof that Pope Peron isn’t the first economic illiterate to be Pope.
False.
Pope Francis would never complain that, “Public institutions and the laws set aside the ancient religion.”
That would offend those of “other” religions.
Note that Pope Leo XIII mentioned “working classes”, not freeloader, welfare classes.
How interesting that there have been no replies thus far to the (Google Translate) translation you offered. Can it plausibly be denied that Jesus in Luke 4:18 quoted Isaiah 61:1 in saying he was anointed to proclaim the Good News to the poor? Or that idolizing riches or any other created thing is a sin? Because the word “communist” appears in the Pope’s quote it is easy to sensationalize it, whereas it is not so easy to live up to what Matthew 25 demands of us.
Oh really? Well thanks for that definitive assurance. I'll take your word for it. It must be good to know in advance what Popes will or won't say. That's quite a gift.
Back to my actual point.
For the purposes of this discussion Pope Francis did write this and I'm inviting you to be perfectly honest with the readers and admit that when the name of Francis appears under this passage it reads like a communist screed and when the name of Leo appears, it's sound Catholic teaching.
You've already told us that you thought I was suggesting that Leo XIII was the father of modern communism based on this passage, which verifies that this passage can be construed as class war rhetoric and you asked if I was using it as such against Leo XIII.
Freudian slip on your part. I'm saying that you would have no problem using it in such a way against the present Pope should he utter similar words.
Oh that's right, I forgot. He never would.
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