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To: metmom
*Yes but*... nothing. Close doesn't count. If it's not Scripture, it's not Scripture and if it's not named in Scripture, it doesn't matter whose opinion it is, it isn't named in Scripture.

Yes, writings from 110 count, even when not included in the Canon. The Early Fathers provide valuable insight, confirmation, and historicity. 110 is extremely relevant to the phrase "catholic church." Pure speculation on your part.

No, it isn't. You keep repeating it because you learned it somewhere other than the Bible. There are denominations, who don't want to be called denonimations because of their origin, that use it. Denominations are not the living body of Christ. They are organizations which have set themselves up and called themselves churches. The body of Christ is built of individual believers who were called out publicly under the supervision of apostolically appointed bishops and elders. History, laying on of hands, directly from the twelve Jewish Apostles led by the servant of the sheep Peter, given their commission directly, personally from the Messiah. Lather, rinse, and repeat in unbroken succession. That is the only genuine church on this earth, and one of its hallmark is unity, hence the word "catholic" adopted as early as 110.

As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Prayer for all Believers 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

So what? There are other religions that are far older. If age it the determining factor in truthfulness or validity, there are other religions which can out do the Orthodox and Catholic.

An unbroken line of succession to the Jewish Apostles, not some other Gentile religion, whether ancient or modern. Only when it's convenient for the numbers game. I hear that when one leaves the RCC that that person's name is never removed unless they officially request it in writing.

It is more than a numbers game; it is an indication the Catholic and Orthodox churches took the Gospel to the four corners of the earth (as have some other mission oriented ecclesiastical communities).

That means that *I* am still being counted as part of that 1.2 billion strong, as are multitudes of other Catholics who left after being born again.

I think you could count yourself as a wandering Catholic, angry and in rebellion at what you perceive to be the holy catholic apostolic church.

The hypocrisy in that claim that's constantly being thrown out there is that there are cultural Catholics, there are the likes of Pelosi, Kennedy, Chavez, etc who you guys own when it comes to the numbers game and turn around and disown as having ex-communicated themselves when it comes to pointing out the liberal voting patterns of the majority of Catholics, and there are those who left of their own accord, who you all own only when it's convenient.

Wheat and tares; it is not enough to be baptized into the faith; one must persevere and bear fruit.

868 posted on 07/03/2014 6:23:26 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: af_vet_1981; metmom
Yes, writings from 110 count, even when not included in the Canon. The Early Fathers provide valuable insight, confirmation, and historicity. 110 is extremely relevant to the phrase "catholic church."

Shall we pretend that Ignatius wasn't using an adjective to describe the universal body of Christ?

What has ALWAYS been the measuring rod of the rule of the Christian faith is what Holy Scripture says are the doctrines of the faith. Much of what Roman Catholicism teaches today - nearly two thousand years removed - was unheard of in the early church and if that is not a perfect sign of the LACK of doctrinal succession of the apostolic teachings I don't know what is. We already know that claims of an "unbroken line" are bogus, so, if you cannot show that the Apostles taught the novel inventions Catholicism claims are mandatory for all Christians, you cannot claim the exclusive, elitist banner of the universal church.

882 posted on 07/03/2014 3:25:23 PM PDT by boatbums (Proud member of the Free Republic Bible Thumpers Brigade.)
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