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To: roamer_1; boatbums; editor-surveyor; daniel1212; Greetings_Puny_Humans
What he seems to be so zealously arguing is the premise that if one loves YHWH and follows Messiah, then the inward man should desire Torah... That the Spirit, transforming us, will be continuously making us to be like Yeshua, and Yeshua kept Torah.

You're putting the emphasis on following the wrong thing.

It's JESUS we're supposed to follow. Put on Christ.

Yes, Jesus kept the Torah, but that's not what makes us acceptable or right in God's eyes.

So what parts, exactly, of the Torah are we to keep? And why not the whole thing? Why just pick and choose which parts to obey?

The NT message is to fulfill the law of love by which we will obey and fill God's plan for ourselves without even trying.

So tell us, just what happens to the believer if he DOESN'T obey the Torah?

Is he condemned? Go to hell? God's mad at him? Withholds blessings?

Why the emphasis on following the Torah? And how do you do it without the Temple and consecrated priesthood? How do you decide which parts you need to follow and which parts don't need to be followed and on what basis do you make that determination?

746 posted on 07/01/2014 3:53:11 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom; roamer_1; boatbums; editor-surveyor; daniel1212; Greetings_Puny_Humans

David ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat but he was God’s consecrated future king, he was in need of nourishment and thus the priests heeded higher laws. Love is our highest law and when one is guided by God’s love...all the other laws will line up in the order we are to follow. Under Christ’s love, it is not that all laws are set aside, it is simply that some laws such as charity will supersede lesser laws. I’m with you in that this attempt to foist a Jewish system of feasts and Sabbath worship on Gentiles is a non sequitor in the living of the Christian faith. Paul condemen it then and he would now!

Referencing the story of the Good Samaritan: The priests were technically correct as per the Law of Moses in not helping the robbed injured traveler but they were wrong in not heeding God’s higher laws that demanded they help this man even if his bloody wounds were potentially a corruption to them. In truth, they hid behind their adherence to the law as a selfish justification in not aiding the man. The Good Samaritan, in helping the man,(despite the estrangement of the Samaritans from the Jews and the Mosaic laws) shows himself to be in tune with God’s rightful ordering of his Laws grounded in Love after the priestly order of Melchizidek!


749 posted on 07/01/2014 6:37:02 AM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: metmom; roamer_1; boatbums; daniel1212; Greetings_Puny_Humans

>> “You’re putting the emphasis on following the wrong thing.

It’s JESUS we’re supposed to follow. Put on Christ.” <<

.
Your confusion is deep.

Following Yeshua is specifically following his commandments. That is what believing on him means; the belief of a disciple.
.


761 posted on 07/01/2014 12:10:31 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: metmom; boatbums; editor-surveyor; daniel1212; Greetings_Puny_Humans
You're putting the emphasis on following the wrong thing.

No, I am not.

It's JESUS we're supposed to follow. Put on Christ.

Exactly - One might better understand what that means, if one knows what being a disciple MEANS in the Hebrew sense.

Yes, Jesus kept the Torah, but that's not what makes us acceptable or right in God's eyes.

Yet, if we love YHWH, we will keep His commandments. And if we understand what it means to 'follow Messiah', we know that His example is what we are to emulate - That is what a disciple DOES - He emulates his master.

So what parts, exactly, of the Torah are we to keep? And why not the whole thing? Why just pick and choose which parts to obey?

Nope. All of it.

The NT message is to fulfill the law of love by which we will obey and fill God's plan for ourselves without even trying.

If we love YHWH we will keep his commandments, and his commandments are not grievous.

So tell us, just what happens to the believer if he DOESN'T obey the Torah?

That is above my paygrade.

Is he condemned? Go to hell? God's mad at him? Withholds blessings?

Well, there is that 'I never knew ye' thing... workers of lawlessness... But like I said, above my paygrade.

Why the emphasis on following the Torah?

Because it is the way of the House of YHWH. If we love him, we will keep his commandments... The emphasis is on loving YHWH, and following Messiah...

And how do you do it without the Temple and consecrated priesthood?

Yet again? That which you CAN'T do, is made moot. An Israelite who is too poor or too sick to go to the Temple is not doomed by it. If there is no Temple, there is no sacrifice. simple as that. And Jews have been keeping the Holy Days for centuries without it. And by the way, only three Holy Days 'require' a Temple, and only ONE of those requires a personal sacrifice.

How do you decide which parts you need to follow and which parts don't need to be followed and on what basis do you make that determination?

Some of it is nation based, some personal, some for men, some for priests, some for women, some for kids... That which you can do, DO.

821 posted on 07/02/2014 4:34:56 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: metmom; roamer_1; boatbums; daniel1212; Greetings_Puny_Humans
>> “So tell us, just what happens to the believer if he DOESN'T obey the Torah?” <<

Take your answer to that from the scriptures:

Proverbs 24:

[7] Wisdom is too high for a fool: he openeth not his mouth in the gate.
[8] He that deviseth to do evil shall be called a mischievous person.
[9] The thought of foolishness is sin: and the scorner is an abomination to men.
[10] If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is small.
[11] If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;
[12] If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

Matthew 16:

[24] Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
[25] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
[26] For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 20:

[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

828 posted on 07/02/2014 6:35:09 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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