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To: boatbums; Greetings_Puny_Humans
We know that the word "sin" in the Greek transliteration is hamartano, which means "to miss the mark".

I am not asking for the definition of the term, I am asking for a list thereof. To sin is to transgress the Torah, as even the NT declares. Torah itemizes what to do and what not to do. According to GPH, the Torah no longer matters. Thus, if Torah is no more, there is also no expressed LAW.

When Paul says in Romans 3;23, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.", he isn't speaking of a human capacity for reaching the perfection of God - which WOULD be required if anyone could ever be in His presence.

Yes, he certainly IS speaking of the inability of Man to be perfect, and the hallmark of that perfection is Yeshua, and the touchstone is Torah.

It is why sin was expiated, or covered, in the Old Testament times before Christ came and made the once-for-all sacrifice for sin which He was the PROpitiation for our sins. This means He took them away, as far as the east is from the west and removed them from us.

The blood of goats and bulls never was able to cover the sin of a man. The Torah said so. That blood was but a placeholder until a better blood came along. THAT Blood has come, and performs the same, but realized covering. Every sin (transgression of Torah) is still repented, and thereby covered by a blood sacrifice - That sacrifice once delivered two thousand years ago. But the mechanics thereof remain the same. It is a function of Torah.

By living in obedience to Christ, we honor God and demonstrate a grateful heart for His mercy and grace, but our works of the law can never save us. Adam, Noah, Abraham were all BEFORE there even was a law of Moses, yet they were STILL sinners in need of grace and mercy and they were declared righteous by faith, not works.

Again, no one is claiming that keeping Torah makes one righteous. We ALL rely upon Messiah. And I might add that in Adam's day there was blood sacrifice (Abel)... In Noah's day there was a difference between the clean and unclean (and sacrifice), and Abraham walked with YHWH and kept his commandments. I would suggest that one might look at the successive covenants as continuing revelations of the very same thing. And then look to the Kingdom, and see what YHWH has made known.

702 posted on 06/30/2014 11:38:47 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1; boatbums
I am not asking for the definition of the term, I am asking for a list thereof. To sin is to transgress the Torah, as even the NT declares. Torah itemizes what to do and what not to do. According to GPH, the Torah no longer matters. Thus, if Torah is no more, there is also no expressed LAW.

You are merely putting words into my mouth. I never said the Old Testament no longer matters. And the reason why I never gave you what you wanted isn't because I am unable to answer. Paul is full of such lists as you would like, if you would believe him. He condemns murder, theft, adultery, fornication, coveting, and all manner of like sins, and in case he missed anything, he adds "if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" (Rom 13:9).

Your complaint asking me to "define sin" was and is just a red herring so you can get out of the thorny scriptures which declare that all your bacon regulations aren't obsessively important as you would like us to believe, but are done away with.

Before you may waste our time with these long winded posts, you must address the objections already made to you. Until that time, anything you say is just mere distraction.

704 posted on 06/30/2014 2:25:37 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: roamer_1
Acts 15:22-29 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter: “The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.

No obligations to keep the feast days, the holy days, the Torah.

You keep contradicting yourself. You say *Save by grace* but then demand something the leaders of the early church and the Holy Spirit never required, and that is keeping the Torah.

Not to mention that the feast days can't be properly kept without the Temple and a consecrated priesthood to make the proper sacrifices.

So this obsession with keeping the Torah is meaningless.

If getting back to the Hebrew roots makes you feel better, if you like keeping the feast days, if they are special to you and mean something to you, have at it.

But don't demand that everyone do what you do just because you think it's right when Scripture does not demand it of us.

All the admonitions of Scripture are for living according to the law of love, not the Law of the of covenant.

We are under the new covenant and are not bound by the old one any more. God doesn't relate to us that way, we don't need to relate to God that way.

729 posted on 06/30/2014 6:41:19 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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