[daniel1212]

And note af_vet_1981's reaffirmation in response to,

Perhaps you should consider the context of the debate, and explain how reproving Judaizers, and challenging them to be consistent in their position, is somehow mocking the Torah and the Jews, and is antisemitic, antiChristian, and unclean. Do it!

I did, and I think you crossed the line so I reproved you.

But af_vet_1981 has not shown here why my words warrant these charges when Scripture goes much further, while if the objection is to how my words may be taken, then we must heavily censor Scripture, as well as refrain from contending for the faith and against liberalism. Yet this charge by af_vet_1981 is consistent with RCs who see most any reproof of Rome as bigoted, but which can never apply to them.

You provided a reasoned response, and indeed, calling Christian sabbathtarians "Judaizers" as they enjoin keeping the ceremonial law upon us is clearly not mocking the Torah nor is it antisemitic, antiChristian, and unclean, esp. when Paul had much stronger words.

And yet the response to this apostolic support by af_vet_1981 was that "Peter and Paul are my apostles; I believe and trust them. They were not antisemitic in the least."

And thus despite any denial that he was not calling me antisemitic, af_vet_1981 is dealing with motive, so that while the fact is that i am very much pro-Israel , and Paul can say

"I would they were even cut off which trouble you. (Galatians 5:12) - "Would that those who are upsetting you might also castrate themselves!" (NAB) - and

"Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost," (1 Thessalonians 2:15-16)

and Peter can state, "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?," (Acts 15:10)

yet my words that, "all those Judaizers who even had marital relations last night must remain unclean till the evening. (Leviticus 15:16-18) I wonder how many observe that one," are said to be mocking the Torah, and antisemitic, antiChristian, and unclean, because af_vet_1981 does not trust my motive.

Thus af_vet_1981 does not trust me in my reproof of modern-day Judaizers and thus i am charged with speaking antisemitic, antiChristian, and unclean words.

And thus he/she must yet provide evidence of why i cannot be trusted to speak such words without these being antisemitic, antiChristian, and unclean, or otherwise show how my words of reproof in calling for consistency are trying to mock the Torah and are antisemitic antiChristian and unclean.

It was however, mocking those who enjoin keeping the ceremonial law yet who do not treat themselves as unclean until the evening every time they had marital relations.

[af_vet_1981]

And thus he/she must yet provide evidence of why i cannot be trusted to speak such words without these being antisemitic, antiChristian, and unclean, or otherwise show how my words of reproof in calling for consistency are trying to mock the Torah and are antisemitic antiChristian and unclean.

1. I assign no personal motive. I blame history, which has shown what has come from assigning such labels to Jews in a highly charged religious polemic. That term itself sounds as if it applies to all Jews who follow and teach Torah (yes, I know that is not how most Christians use it, and especially not here). Historically it was played out that way which laws passed to restrict Jews from teaching, and then even practicing Judaism. All the Jewish people were targets because of the religious polemic.
2. A Catholic Timeline of Events Relating to Jews, Anti-Judaism, Antisemitism, and the Holocaust From the 3rd Century to the Beginning of the Third Millennium Prepared by Jerry Darring
3. Consider Martin Luther. I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that these miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen.
4. Look where his polemical book led: The prevailing view[28] among historians is that Luther's anti-Jewish rhetoric contributed significantly to the development of antisemitism in Germany,[29] and in the 1930s and 1940s provided an ideal foundation for the Nazi Party's attacks on Jews.[30] Reinhold Lewin writes that "whoever wrote against the Jews for whatever reason believed he had the right to justify himself by triumphantly referring to Luther." According to Michael, just about every anti-Jewish book printed in the Third Reich contained references to and quotations from Luther. Diarmaid MacCulloch argues that Luther's 1543 pamphlet On the Jews and Their Lies was a "blueprint" for the Kristallnacht.[31] Shortly after the Kristallnacht, Martin Sasse, Bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Thuringia, published a compendium of Martin Luther's writings ; Sasse "applauded the burning of the synagogues" and the coincidence of the day, writing in the introduction, "On November 10, 1938, on Luther's birthday, the synagogues are burning in Germany." The German people, he urged, ought to heed these words "of the greatest anti-Semite of his time, the warner of his people against the Jews."[32] In 1940, Heinrich Himmler wrote admiringly of Luther's writings and sermons on the Jews.[33] The city of Nuremberg presented a first edition of On the Jews and their Lies to Julius Streicher, editor of the Nazi newspaper Der Stürmer, on his birthday in 1937; the newspaper described it as the most radically antisemitic tract ever published.[34] It was publicly exhibited in a glass case at the Nuremberg rallies and quoted in a 54-page explanation of the Aryan Law by Dr. E.H. Schulz and Dr. R. Frercks.[35] On December 17, 1941, seven Lutheran regional church confederations issued a statement agreeing with the policy of forcing Jews to wear the yellow badge, "since after his bitter experience Luther had [strongly] suggested preventive measures against the Jews and their expulsion from German territory."
5. That is why I object to the term. We have Torah Observant Jews among us here. Can you use another term that honors your biblical argument without having such a connection with Judaism ? Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. 2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him. 4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. 9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. 10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; 11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. 13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.