[af_vet_1981]

As for the Revelation 20 passages, those being judged all missed the first resurrection, so they are all without Christ. What else can they be judged on but their works?

Interesting interpretation;

• do you also hold that revelation 22, with the Lord's final Scriptural words do not apply to those who take part in the fist resurrection?
• Do you think the Lord's numerous warnings (Ten Virgins), weeping and gnashing of teeth, cast into darkness, are a warning of cleansing by fire (purgatory of sorts) ? Do these sinning believers miss out on the first resurrection ?
• What of the fundamentalist Baptist pastor who left his wife and married the wife of another congregant while counseling said wife on sexual issues ? There were 7 children between the two couples prior to this sin. The pastor switched locations, many times, and still holds fast to the doctrines of the faith, Calvinism, Grace, OSAS, but refused to leave the ministry or give up his second wife. I have no doubt he had a salvation experience and many years of faithful service. Yet he faltered along the way, but stayed true to OSAS, and never had to account to any other church discipline; as he can start his own and not gossip about what is past. Which resurrection is his ?

I think the Catholic view is that he is not in a state of grace ? Assuming his initial conversion was genuine, what is your church's view ?

[Springfield Reformer]

All interesting questions, and I appreciate the sense of genuine inquiry. It’s good every now and then to get past talking past each other.

However, I am at work, and tapping out answers on my droid is painfully slow, so I can only give the most cursory answers, for now. Perhaps more later.

1. Everyone who loves Jesus wants to do good. So Rev 22 seems applicable, especially in context of being descriptive rather than prescriptive. The chief commandments are love for God and neighbor. Will God hold us to account for not eating kosher or holding temple service, complete with sacrifice? That is not the focus of Rev 22. Personal morality, integrity, honesty, all are in view. But descriptively. What Protestants reject is not the need for personal holiness, but that we can take any credit for personal righteousness that follows our salvation, or that the final outcome is not under Gods control, but the fallible, fickle will of fallen sinners. He justifies us with no condition imposed other than faith, and that itself is gift from Him. Then He molds us into the righteous people He always planned for us to be. And if that true change of the inner man to love God and neighbor does not happen, that person has reason to fear the description of those lost souls found outside the gate on that final day.

2. The fire spoken of by Paul that consumes our wood, hay, and stubble is not literal suffering in the netherworld, as if the suffering of Christ was not enough, or could be added to. It is as much a metaphor as the wood and hay etc. I take it to mean the measuring if our deeds against the holiness of God. Whatever we have done inconsistent with that, though covered by the blood of Christ and so not due cause for purgatorial suffering, is nonetheless a loss to us, a failure to make the most of the opportunities to live well as God defines it. So the many warnings have multiple purposes, with much Scripture to describe it. But Paul is not wrong. We will not enter into the Gospel by the sealing of the Spirit, then finish by deeds of the flesh. Any view that fails to account for the completeness of the redemption provided in the death of Christ is a partial gospel at best.

3. I am not able to speak to the eternal state of someone like the pastor you described. Reformed folks like myself view OSAS in terms if the “perseverance of the saints,” that salvation is not some automatic effect of saying a ritual prayer, but a true heart conversion that fills one with the Holy Spirit and a keen desire to please Him in every way possible. Whether this pastor is genuinely saved but living a life of wood, hay, and stubble, or whether he is self-deceived and lost as can be, is above my pay grade. That’s between him and God. My advice to him would be to forsake every trace of sin in his life, returning to his first love, no matter the cost, thereby making his calling and election sure.

Out of time.

Peace,

SR