Posted on 06/24/2014 2:13:28 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Any church, congregational or not, associated or not, which holds to creeds or confessions, is not by definition, holding to 'scripture alone', as any creed or confession constitutes a 'tradition'.
Yes, exactly. So arguments against any and all tradition are false in practice.
the Bible is the only infallible authority, and not the 'ONLY authority'..
First, you still have the problem of scripture requiring a reader/interpreter - authority. In addition, I see this as another example of false in practice. I don't know of any Confessional or Creedal statement by an authority that admits it's creed is fallible. The Westminster Confession, for example, does not end with "but we could be wrong, after all we're fallible."
I'm exaggerating here, but I think you can see the point: those stating what they believe to be absolute truth do not condition it, Protestants included.
So there is, in practice, the necessity for another authority other than scripture and that authority claims it's creed, doctrine, dogma to be absolutely true without fail.
Objections that the Church does so are a double standard.
Can you prove it wasn’t God who spoke to Mohammed? You’re the expert on proof, so show me how to do it.
Actually, no, you don't. But if you want to live by the words of Bob Dylan, you go ahead. He never impressed me.
I cannot think of any views I have that could be called religious, but rather than step back, I would advise others to think about this: imagine any claim a Muslim might make. Or a Scientologist. Or any other religion you consider false. Think of the logical tests you would put their claims to. Because this doubt and this cynicism others on this thread decry, they have it too. And they aim it at every religion not their own. I simply treat them all the same.
I don’t give my opinion. I post scripture.
Church? Denomination? There is no concept of that in scripture. The term “church” used today is a construct of paganism not what the apostles taught nor what Christ instituted.
The assembly I belong to is much older than the RCC. It was started by the apostles.
Romans 16:5 Likewise greet the assembly that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.
Colossians 4:15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the assembly which is in his house.
Philemon 1:2 And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the assembly in thy house:
We see the RCC which was established thousands of years later this way.
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
The self aggrandizing leadership in many organized religions today is not what God ordained.
1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
You see, our way is much, much older than the apostate RCC organization and survived despite the evil oppression and persecution of the RCC. We don’t set up idols or revere mere men.
2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
>>Tell me, what church do you go to?<<
It’s time we get off this Catholic Protestant meme and see what scripture says. I couldn’t care less which “religion” someone claims to be or what supposed “church group” they belong to. Either they follow what scripture says and put their full faith in Christ alone or they don’t.
Get this straight. I’m not a Protestant, Catholic, or any other moniker people like to attach to either themselves or others.
Let it be known that I am born again follower of Christ. A member of His universal world wide assembly called “The Bride of Christ”.
1 Peter 2: 9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
See organizational structure here: http://www.bible.ca/ntx-elders-pastors-bishops.htm
According to the Holy Spirit through Paul if the apostles didn’t teach something we are to consider the teacher of a doctrine to be “accursed”. Would you please show where the apostles taught the “Marian Doctrines”?
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9
Wow! You thought Elsie was a Mormon after what he posts about Mormonism? Is your reading comprehension that bad? It’s obvious to me that you understanding of what Elsie posts about Mormonism is as bad as your understanding of what is written in scripture.
What is this stuff??? One holy catholic apostolic faith??? Who invented that phrase??? There is one spiritual Body of Christ made up of many churches
I don't put my faith in the apostles and they did not give me faith...Godly faith is what I have...Christian faith...You are speaking of a religion that can not be found in the scriptures...
“Can you prove it wasn’t God who spoke to Mohammed?”
Can you even remotely make an argument in favor of your beliefs about Paul? Yes or no?
“You’re the expert on proof, so show me how to do it.”
As soon as you start posting actual evidence about Paul maybe I will. Put up or shut up.
You’re a Protestant. Deal with it.
The Protestant denominations came out of the Catholic Church and are her daughters even having retained many of her errors. Your little “box” of believers doesn’t work with true Christians. It’s probably a concept the Catholic mind cannot grasp.
...So there is, in practice, the necessity for another authority other than scripture and that authority claims it's creed, doctrine, dogma to be absolutely true without fail.
I think it misrepresents the Westminster Confession to imply that it puts itself or any other human authority on the same level as Scripture, and that it somehow tacitly presumes itself to be an infallible interpreter of Scripture. The text itself explicitly states otherwise:
IV. The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, depends not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God.[9]V. We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the Church to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scripture.[10] And the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is, to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it does abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God: yet notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.[11]
VI. The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men.[12] Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word:[13] and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.[14]
VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all:[15] yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.[16]
IX. The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself: and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly.[23]
X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.[24]
Cordially,
You’re a Protestant. Deal with it.
Only to shallow minded Catholics who have been blinded to truth.
I am a Protestant, too, and very happy about it.
No, only to those who know the truth - and the truth is that you are a Protestant. That’s simply the truth.
I am not surprised by that attitude. It fits the model I expect where rebellion continually breeds more rebels and a chronic issues with authority.
I don't think you are being intellectually honest and cannot tell if you made up your own house church or the group to which you do belong is, shall we say, unorthodox and you'd rather not say. I will try not to ask you again.
The Wesleyan Church appears to have begun in Utica, New York in 1843, when it separated from the Methodist Episcopal Church. It has women pastors/ministers/reverends in leadership positions over men, contrary to the teaching of the Apostle to the Gentiles. It is against most, but not all abortions. It is pro contraception. It is Evangelical and not Fundamentalist. It is Arminian and not Calvinist. It is relatively small.
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