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To: CynicalBear
Not even a sparrow falls without God’s will

This is where I appear to fall off of accepted Christian doctrine.

The most important miracle of Jesus was that He made God change his mind. Before Jesus, all sinners went to hell.

The miracle of Jesus was redemption. God allowed no redemption prior to Jesus. With the exception of those(none) that committed no sin, we all went to hell..Noah, Moses, Soloman, etc...they all went to hell.

If our lives are the will of God, then why would there be a Judgement Day? If our lives are God's will, what are we to judged for?

We do not fall because of God's will, and neither does the sparrow. God has high hopes for us, but the failings, and fallings, are ours, not God's.

I truly enjoy this subject, and would very much appreciate your take on it.

143 posted on 06/20/2014 7:50:46 PM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu
>>The most important miracle of Jesus was that He made God change his mind.<<

God didn’t change His mind. Jesus is God after all.

>>Before Jesus, all sinners went to hell.<<

I’m thinking you have not done much of a study or any study at all of what the Hebrew and Greek words really meant that have been translated “hell”. Satan has done a good job at muddying the issue. Prior to the death and resurrection of Christ there was a “holding place” called Hades. The true translation or meaning of hades is “the unseen world”. Read Luke 16 for the account of the different divides in that “unseen world”. Abraham, Lazarus and the poor man were on one side and the rich man was on the torment side. Abraham, Lazarus, the poor man and all those faithful to God prior to Christ’s death were kept in that place because the ultimate, perfect sacrifice for man’s sin had not yet been made. When Christ died that price was paid and Jesus during those three days went to that “unseen world” to release those faithful to heaven.

>>With the exception of those(none) that committed no sin, we all went to hell..Noah, Moses, Soloman, etc...they all went to hell.<<

They went to that “unseen world” (hades) until the death and resurrection of Christ. Those who were not believers in God are still in the torment half of that place awaiting their judgment and will be sent to Gehanna (eternal torment) which has also been translated hell.

>>If our lives are the will of God, then why would there be a Judgement Day? If our lives are God's will, what are we to judged for?<<

We believers will not be “judged”. Jesus made us that promise.

John 5:24 "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

>>We do not fall because of God's will, and neither does the sparrow.<<

If God didn’t allow death it wouldn’t happen. God decides who He will keep alive and who He will allow to die or be killed.

Matthew 10:29 - Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

You can trust that God in His infinite knowledge will know what is best. Whether our sons live or die is in His hands and we must trust that whatever happens it is He who knows what is best. If we don’t have that trust we have nothing to hold on to.

185 posted on 06/21/2014 1:06:39 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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