Posted on 06/20/2014 6:23:47 AM PDT by Weiss White
Q: My daughter stopped practicing her faith and was married to a protestant in his church. Now she has come back, and her protestant husband is preparing to become a Catholic too, next Easter. They understand that their marriage isn’t valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church, but the parish priest told them he can just “bless their marriage” and it will be all right. Can that possibly be true? –Eamon
(Excerpt) Read more at canonlawmadeeasy.com ...
Sounds like there’s no such thing as an ex-Catholic or ex-Marine!
But really, my question is about how a marriage that appears to be ‘the same thing’ can be be a) recognized AND b) not recognized. It gets kind of hair-splitting, at least to me. I.e., the marriage is NOT recognized if it is in (say) a Presbyterian church between a Presbyterian and a Catholic. THEN, that same ceremony in a Presbyterian church between two Presbyterians IS recognized.
So years down the line if the two Presbyterians divorce (as is recognized by the Presbyterian church), when one of them wants to marry a Catholic, his/her former marriage is recognized and s/he cannot marry the Catholic in the RC Church.
BUT in the case given here, a (fallen away) Catholic marries a Presbyterian in the Presbyterian Church, and the church doesn’t recognize the marriage (or that’s what I understand the story to be about). Thus, I R confused.
James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
There is no “luck” involve following what scripture says.
Unpoped:To view the definition of unpope, activate your Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary FREE TRIAL now!
What are the odds We are all shocked here.
We three Christians deserve answers to all of our questions. Is your faith so weak that you cannot keep up with me, much less EDINVA & Iscool.
What a poser. If you want to appear to be a Catholic, you are going to have to seriously up your game. Those guys are serious.
One of my sons is engaging muslim fu*ks in the mid-east as we speak.(semper fi) You will have to engage the Catholic hoard in my stead.
God bless. God speed.
(I hope I am not too big a disappointment)
You misrepresent what is at the link. Shame on you.
Before it talks about getting the unabridged version of the on-line dictionary, it says:
un·pope
transitive verb \”+\
Full Definition of UNPOPE
archaic
: to divest of the character, office, or authority of a pope
Origin of UNPOPE
2un- + pope, noun
More troll behavior.
But I shouldn't need to do your research for you. Here it is from the free dictionary:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Unpope
Un`pope´
v. t. 1. To divest of the character, office, or authority of a pope.
2. To deprive of a pope.
Rome will never so far unpope herself as to part with her pretended supremacy.
- Fuller.
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, published 1913 by C. & G. Merriam Co.
sitetest
I appreciate you support, but I love Catholics. They are the original Christians, and the Church is the biggest force for good on the planet today.
I cannot join in your "correction".
wow, just saw your reply to me brought havoc on you. Sorry about that.
I respect the Catholic Church and its absolute right to set the rules for its members. And I respect those who observe those rules, however much in the breach. If one doesn’t like it, one can practice their faith elsewhere (or nowhere), as far as I’m concerned. So I’m not at all challenging, but rather trying to figure out how what appears to be pretty identical circumstances can be perceived quite differently, that’s all.
I don’t know why at FR people can’t have civil discussions on religions without the sniping. I tend to avoid the religious threads for that reason.
Because it's not quite the same thing. Or perhaps, it's the same thing, but on different people, and thus, with different effects.
Two people can be performing the same action, but the intent could be different.
Two Presbyterians marrying in front of a Presbyterian minister intend to do all they can to marry properly within the sight of God.
What's not to like?
It would be nice if the two Presbyterians would also do what the Catholic must do - that is, promise to live according to Catholic teaching, to be open to children, and to raise any children Catholic.
But it would be a little silly to expect two Presbyterians to do those things, as they are not, and never have been Catholic, and thus, it is difficult for the Church to ascribe any lack or impediment in their marriage due to disobedience or failure to give one's entire self in marriage.
Now, a Catholic, baptized and raised, goes off to “be” a Presbyterian. And marries as a Presbyterian. The Church doesn't see this person as anything but a Catholic. And thus, failure to follow proper canonical form, which includes the promises cited above, can only be interpreted as sinful, wrong, a lack, an impediment, a failure to enter into the sacrament of matrimony fully and completely.
The Catholic, having turned away from the faith, is guilty of objectively grave evil, and his attempt to contract marriage, but refusing to promise to live according to the Church's teaching, to be open to children, and to raise any children as Catholic (among various obligations) makes invalid the attempted sacrament.
Bill Buckley used to say, there's a difference between pushing an old lady in front of a bus, and pushing her out of the way of a bus, even though both things are the same action. So, it is here. The two faithful Protestants obey God's law to the degree that they know it. The fallen away Catholic does not, having been taught better.
Now, it is entirely possible that the two Protestants didn't really understand even the basics of Christian marriage, even to the point of making the marriage null. That could form the grounds for a tribunal to consider a declaration of the marriage between the two Protestants. Or one or both parties didn't intend "till death do us part" because he or she didn't really believe in the indissolubility of marriage. I've actually seen cases like this. I've seen folks come into the Church with previous Protestant marriages where declarations of nullity were obtained, because one or both of the parties involved didn't meet the standards for a valid, Christian sacramental marriage, without regard to anything specifically Catholic.
But that's a little more involved, and a little less obvious than a defect in canonical form in the attempted sacramental marriage of a fallen-away Catholic. The defect of canonical form is a readily observable fact. The defect of understanding on the part of one or both of the two Protestants requires further inquiry to determine just how limited their understanding was at the time of marriage, and whether it truly represented an impediment to sacramental marriage.
sitetest
So is my son in law, his third tour. I’ll still “engage” any scriptural error I see. I’m not sure where the “disappointment” comment fits in. I have no expectations of people. I leave that to God.
Cut & Paste is the the oldest "misrepresent" in the box.
sitetest, you are going to have to start making some sense.
It’s not a big deal. But thanks.
No misrepresentation on my part. I leave that to you. You're clearly much better at it than I could ever hope to be.
Enjoy your trolling!
;=)
sitetest
NO, they are not but I will leave that for you to research. Scripture tells us who the first “Christians” were and when they came to be called that. Hint; it was long, long before Catholicism.
Here's a bad example:
Suppose you're a US citizen and decide to abandon your citizenship. There's a way to do it but the US government doesn't recognize you just saying "I quit". It's almost like that with the Catholic Church, but more so.
All of us suffer our weaknesses. It is easily possible that mine are greater than yours.
I will not go after my brothers in Christ. Pray for me(seriously).
Mine is on his second, and I am losing my mind. I truly do not know how I would handle his death.
Any wisdom you could impart would be well received.
You mean you don’t have to go through a priest?? If you can ask God as you say you can for stuff, why not ask Him for forgiveness?
Guess all that stuff about faith Paul and Peter wrote about doesn’t count??
Put him in God’s hands and pray that God’s will be done. Not even a sparrow falls without God’s will.
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