Ephesians teaches us that the basis for unity is TRUTH.
As long as Rome is apostate, which it has been from the beginning, there will be no unity with true Christians. You will have your unity with the Muslims, with the Jews, and eventually with the Protestants ...
but there will never be unity with the true church of Jesus Christ.
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So, what you are saying is that for some 1500+ years ALL Christians, that is, ALL Catholics were "apostate"?? I guess when Peter went to Rome HE started this "apostate" sin? ALL the vicars of Christ since then are ALL "apostate"? Hmmm.
My, that IS a sweeping generalization and condemnation of BILLIONS of souls over 1500+ years, 15 centuries of condemnation from one FReeper.
a·pos·tate əˈpäsˌtāt,-tit/
1. a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle. synonyms: dissenter, defector, deserter, traitor, backslider, turncoat;
2. abandoning a religious or political belief or principle.
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Without these "apostates" there would have been NO Catholic Church for you to condemn 1500 years AFTER the facts.
Catholic priest and theologian German FATHER Martin Luther meant to reform his beloved ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. And the Church DID undergo reforms. It still does reform, like a work in progress. It IS made up of fallible, sinful human beings. Jesus was/is/always will be perfect. We can't be. Neither can Jesus' vicars. Peter sure wasn't; he denied Jesus THREE times.
Father Luther never meant to splinter Jesus' Roman Catholic Church into NOW 30,000+ DIFFERENT "Protestant" denominations.
Well, at least, dartuser, you are staying true to your "protesting" faith, whichever one of the 30,000 different "protesting" one it is.
BTW, I think that these are all useful discussions.
And the Catholic Church has that truth — why don’t you believe the words of Jesus Christ? “And they shall be one.”
Not so simple.
[Jesus said]: “If your brother sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector." (Matthew 18:15-17)And what is this church to which we are to turn? It cannot just be the local congregation with which we agree. This would just be an appeal to ourselves. In the dispute between Luther and Calvin to which church should they have appealed: the Lutheran congregation, the Calvinist congregation? No, the church to which we need to turn must be a visible one endowed with authority from God. Indeed we can see this in action in the Bible itself when a dispute arose among the Christians at Antioch. They did not appeal to themselves but turned to the Apostles and presbyters in Jerusalem. Notice not just the apostles but also to the presbyters that the apostles had already established to assist themselves. Also notice how they worded their response:
This is the letter delivered by them: “The apostles and the presbyters, your brothers, to the brothers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia of Gentile origin: greetings. Since we have heard that some of our number [who went out] without any mandate from us have upset you with their teachings and disturbed your peace of mind, we have with one accord decided to choose representatives and to send them to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, who have dedicated their lives to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. So we are sending Judas and Silas who will also convey this same message by word of mouth: ‘It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us… (Acts 15:23-28)Notice how the apostles joined the the authority of the presbyters to themselves. Notice also that they are invoking the authority of the Holy Spirit in their decision. Their response carries the authority of God himself and is not just the mere opinion of men.
I would also draw your attention to the line:
Since we have heard that some of our number [who went out] without any mandate from us have upset you with their teachings and disturbed your peace of mind…The dispute at Antioch arose because there were some who were preaching without the authority of the church, just as the divisions within Christianity arose because the Reformers went out preaching without any mandate from the church. No, the church to which we must turn, as the Jesus himself tells us, must be visible and must posses the authority of God.
As long as Rome is apostate…
And by what authority do you judge Rome as apostate? If it is merely your own private interpretation of Scripture then each to his own and unity among Christians is impossible.
…which it has been from the beginning…
If it is from the beginning then how can you accept what the early church has handed down as Scripture?