Pope: Half-hearted Catholics aren't really Catholics at all

cns ^ | June 5, 2014 | Cindy Wooden

[NYer]

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Those who insist others pray and believe exactly like they do, those who have alternatives to every church teaching and benefactors who use the church as a cover for business connections may call themselves Catholics, but they have one foot out the door, Pope Francis said.

"Many people say they belong to the church," but in reality have "only one foot inside," the pope said June 5 at the morning Mass in the chapel of his residence.

(CNS/Paul Haring)

"For these people, the church is not home," but is a place they use as a rental property, he said, according to Vatican Radio.

Pope Francis reflected on the day's Gospel reading, John 17:20-26, and Jesus' prayer that there would be unity, not divisions and conflict, among his disciples. There are three groups of people who call themselves Catholic, but are not really, the pope said. Apologizing for making up words, he labeled the three groups: "uniformists," "alternativists" and "businessists."

The first group, he said, believe that everyone in the church should be just like them. "They are rigid! They do not have that freedom the Holy Spirit gives," and they confuse what Jesus preached with their "own doctrine of uniformity."

"Jesus never wanted the church to be so rigid," Pope Francis said. Such people "call themselves Catholics, but their rigid attitude distances them from the church."

The second group, those with alternative teachings and doctrines, "has a partial belonging to the church. These, too, have one foot outside the church," he said. "They rent the church," not recognizing that its teaching is based on the preaching of Jesus and the apostolic tradition.

Members of the third group "call themselves Christians but don't enter into the heart of the church," they use the church "for personal profit," the pope said. "We have all seen them in parish or diocesan communities and religious congregations; they are some of the benefactors of the church."

"They strut around proud of being benefactors, but in the end, under the table, make their deals," he said.

Pope Francis said the church is made up of people with a variety of differences and gifts, and if one wants to belong to it, he or she must be motivated by love and enter with "your whole heart."

Being open to the Spirit, who fosters harmony in diversity, he said, brings "docility," which is "the virtue that saves us" from entering the church half-heartedly.

[Elsie]

Agree!

[Elsie]

And I tend to be uncomfortable rejecting such unless there are good reasons, e.g. archaeological evidence.

I'm the opposite..

Skeptical of ACCEPTING it unless there is ANY kind of evidence.

[Elsie]

I don't say this as a means of suggesting you should accept any of it, but only to give you an idea of how old it is, which for me is a very important factor for consideration.

And just how 'old' was the teaching that everything revolved around the earth?

Turned out to be WRONG...

[cothrige]

I'm the opposite..

Skeptical of ACCEPTING it unless there is ANY kind of evidence.

Seems prudent to me. Though, in matters of faith, what I consider evidence and what another might may not always be identical.

[cothrige]

And just how 'old' was the teaching that everything revolved around the earth?

Turned out to be WRONG...

Well, if I may, I would not call that a tradition, but merely a very old model about how people imagined things worked. It was like a flat earth, or where rain came from. These are more like rudimentary theories than what I have been referring to, which relate more to factual events and origins as opposed to hypotheses about things which cannot be seen. Does that make sense? One thing they do have in common though is that once evidence to the contrary comes to light they are abandoned. At least if one is rational they are.

For something more analogous to what I have been speaking about consider the differing points of view about who wrote the various books of the Bible. Tradition is that St. Matthew wrote the Gospel which bears his name first, and in Hebrew, which was then translated into Greek. Modern theorists say that St. Mark's was first, and was not by St. Mark. I tend to stick to the traditional view because the modern theorists haven't really produced much in the way of evidence, or even convincing theories for my money. But, if somebody really does produce something concrete, or at least compelling, that what they are saying is true, then I will admit that the traditions are wrong and change my point of view. These traditions, like many, come from closer to the events than anything we have today which we think contradicts them. This is often the case, and so I tend to stick with them, not because I think they are somehow infallible, but just because they probably have a better pedigree than those which would deny them. But, again, that is just how I approach this stuff. What can I say? I am a traditional guy.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

That is really parsing.

Reminds me of when Bill Clinton was asking about the meaning of “is.”

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

So....in order to belong to an organization....such as a Church....you must agree with absolutely EVERYTHING it says and does? Or else you should leave or be kicked out? Is that what you are saying?

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

I’m no great fan of the current Pope myself. I have been turned off by his many misguided comments on economic policy.

But if I decided to excommunicate everyone in the Church who disagreed with my views, I think I would be the only one left in the Church.

[Elsie]

Well, if I may, I would not call that a tradition, but merely a very old model about how people imagined things worked.

Maybe YOU wouldn't; but ROME sure as Hell bet some BIG BUCKS on it!

[Elsie]

What can I say? I am a traditional guy.

What can I say?

Other than Missouri's state nickname fits me to a tee!

[Elsie]

...but just because they probably have a better pedigree than those which would deny them.

---

Logical fallacies hide the truth, so pointing them out is very useful.

Appeal to Authority - Because an authority thinks something, it must therefore be true.

Appeal to Tradition - Trying to get someone to accept something because it has been done or believed for a long time.
Example: This is the way we've always done it. Therefore, it is the right way.
Example: The Catholic church's tradition demonstrates that this doctrine is true.

[ebb tide]

When it comes to dogma........YES!

And “should be kicked out” is not the proper wording. “Automatically kicked-out” is the proper phrasing. Don’t let the doorknob hit your backside.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Sorry pal. Aint leaving. No reason to. I could find another Church to join and find a few things I disagree with as well. Nothing in life is perfect. I don’t expect it. You’ll have to put up some us of free thinkers. If the Church wants to excommunicate me for reading the Bible and believing what’s in it. Fine.

[ebb tide]

From the Catholic Encyclopedia :

>>Pertinacious adhesion to a doctrine contradictory to a point of faith clearly defined by the Church is heresy pure and simple, heresy in the first degree. <<

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm

Sorry, pal. Looks like you’re already in you’re own little church. Martin Luther comes to mind.

[ebb tide]

According to the Catholic Church, you’ve already been automatically ex-communicated.

So don’t hang around your mailbox waiting for official notification.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Fine. I have a friend who also says if you don’t attend the Latin Mass you’re not a real Catholic as well.

[ebb tide]

I’m not surprised you have friends who are also in error. Birds of a feather...

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

I first learned that Jesus had brothers and sisters in a Bible study class taught by a Catholic priest in a Catholic church. The priest didn’t make up any yarns that those brothers and sisters were cousins or Joseph’s children from a prior marriage. Should the priest be excommunicated as well? Should Pope Francis be excommunicated for saying celibacy is not dogma and the policy is subject to change?

[ebb tide]

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

“Celibacy” was never dogma. Do you even know what the dogmas of the Church are?

I’m really beginning to think that you don’t know the difference between dogma, doctrine and discipline.

[ebb tide]

I first learned that Jesus had brothers and sisters in a Bible study class taught by a Catholic priest in a Catholic church.

Martin Luther was once also a Catholic priest in a Catholic church; and he, too, led many astray, as your "teacher" has done you. But I don't think Luther ever formerly denied the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Mother, as you and your "Catholic priest" teacher do.

How about that? Martin Luther appears to be more Catholic than some people who still claim they're Catholics!