Posted on 06/02/2014 6:09:52 AM PDT by Bratch
Ok lets try this conversation with other biblical sins and maybe Cortez can see where he is failing...
“Dad, I’m a murderer.” As Cortez writes, “My heart skipped a beat and I turned towards him and we gave one another the biggest and longest hug as we cried. And all I could tell him was that I loved him so much and that I accepted him just as he is.”
“Dad, I’m a thief.” As Cortez writes, “My heart skipped a beat and I turned towards him and we gave one another the biggest and longest hug as we cried. And all I could tell him was that I loved him so much and that I accepted him just as he is.”
Scriptural reference, please. And version if you don't mind. I'm an NASB guy and just want to compare.
Well said and something I will have in my wallet when I am approached with this and other questions. The Bible is God’s Word breathed for man to live, really live!
The pastor definitely cannot be removed by the SBC. Each church is wholly autonomous. Whether the church can be expelled, though, I am less certain. I used to attend an SBC church and the pastor retired and was replaced by a woman (not permitted in the SBC). We left the church, and shortly thereafter, the church was no longer a part of the SBC. I’m not sure whether it was kicked out or withdrew, though.
Christians either believe in the sinfulness of human nature and support a “repent and believe in the Gospel” message, or they do not. To accept sinful behavior as a ‘normal thing’ and not as a sin, is not a Christian concept, and it does not lead to salvation.
Jesus called everyone to conversion, not to accommodation of sin. I have no doubt that if Jesus were on earth today, he would embrace the homosexuals, but he would never condone their homosexual acts.
An example was Mary Magdalene, who was a sinner, likely a prostitute, but was saved through her acceptance of Jesus’s gospel of life and conversion. For that she paid the price by remaining faithful even at the foot of the cross. She never wavered, and never fell away in her faith and gratitude to God’s Son. That is what we are all called to do as well.
All true.
This is simple surrender to irrationality. It is one thing to welcome someone who is struggling with same sex feelings or someone who has committed adultery etc but to accept and approval of adultery or homosexuality or any number of other sins is not Christian. It is anti-Christian. It is a watered down pseudo Christianity and of course it is not just this issue that churches are abandoning as they seek approval from the world. A pastor that has a gay son and embraces homosexuality should not be running a congregation just as one who has committed adultery should not be in a position of leadership. Southern Baptists will stand strong on this issue but churches need to talk about this issue and ferret those in leadership that don’t hold Christian perspectives on this issue and others.
Good points! You can insert every sin. This applies to everyone. We are all sinners saved by Grace. Sin needs to be called for what it is. . .the transgression of the law of God (1 John 3:4) and rebellion against God (Deuteronomy 9:7; Joshua 1:18).
He knew but was in denial. What parents like these have are guilty consciences. I’m sure if this Pastor would be honest that there is a moment or several where he failed his son by putting him in positions where he was corrupted either in body through molestation or in mind through association with those from the alphabet of deviancy.
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You and me both, I don’t get why these so called leaders can’t even read a bible.
The bible is very clear on this topic. I just see another attack on Christianity.
There is any reason whatsoever that the Dad can’t still love his son. He doesn’t have to condone the relationship at all either.
1 Timothy 1:9-11
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
...realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted
Well, we will see what happens with churches as we embrace homosexual marriage in our civil laws. It seems simple to me that, any church which allows homosexual marriage is endorsing homosexuality. It will be an endorsement and affirmation of that behavior.
Not to over simplify the issues of dealing with friends and relatives who may be “gay”. But the issues become issues of the official position of churches on the issue of homosexuality itself.
When it comes to doctrine, choices have to be made. Do we endorse this behavior just because it’s being forced into our civil laws. And is there a great desire for the churches to prove how liberal they are, and be “with it” and all that, by affirming homosexuality.
Somewhat off topic, but I remember years ago, Jimmy Carter left the Southern Baptist Convention. He said that they had become increasingly rigid in their ideology. As I recall, he cited some issues related to women as a key factor in his leaving, and becoming a member of a different Baptist group.
So, I’m just thinking, that a split will happen, and we will have to see how many Baptist churches split off over the issue of homosexuality.
Its not “remove” them... because the association is just a group of churches who collaborate. What happens is the others vote to “disassociate” themselves with the problem church. Years ago Oklahoma Southern Baptists were very close to voting to disassociate with a local church that had decided to accept sprinkling rather than immersion as an accepted baptism.
If the son were in involved in any other sinful situation, the Dad would still love his son, hug his son, be supportive, but would not condone the sin.
For example, if he had a married son who confessed to adultery, the father would love his son, comfort his son, but also insist that he stop seeing the other woman, and return to his wife to work out issues in his marriage.
Name any other sin, and I think we all know that the dad would encourage his son to stop the sinful behavior.
I have believed for a long time that Revelation 17 is describing the Church which has turned into the whore.
Some people really get upset about this as if it comes from some one who hate the Church but that is far from the truth.
This thread is not something new, we are reading this kind of stuff every day, can you imagine the uproar there would be if some one read even just 40 years that the church was accepting homosexuality as an acceptable life style?
In the past the Church was not satisfied with just preaching the gospel, they had to get every one and their dogs to become members, now look what it is leading to.
The early teachings taught that people who would become members of the Church was to give their all to The Church.
But remember Ananias, and his wife, Sapphira ? they were not believers they just wanted to be in on something, most likely anything, and consider what happened to them.
It is far worse today and has been for many years, the Church leaders, not knowing the scriptures wants to make every one members, as a result many people like Ananias became members and are now leaders.
Almost always, I agree with Dr. Mohler. In this there is a choice between God’s way or the wrong way. Homosexuality is clearly considered sinful in the bible. There are no “exceptions” granted in scripture as there are with divorce. God left homosexuality black and white, a stark choice, sin or obedience.
In my opinion there is no such thing as a personal Christianity that does not acknowledge one’s acts of sin as anything other than sinful. There is no learning to live at ease with adultery, with murder, with theft, with homosexuality, etc. It is sinful and there is zero way to accommodate it to a holy Christian life. It cannot be incorporated, it is always sinful, and refusing to confess sin because one calls sinfulness holiness is being “lost in one’s sin” in the classic sense of that word.
Such a person was never a Christian. They are wolves.
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