Posted on 05/15/2014 8:58:50 PM PDT by Salvation
Who's going to interpret the CCC or the pronouncements of the magisterium?
IS the clear and plain teachings of Scripture are beyond people's ability to *correctly interpret* so is everything else.
Then you need an interpretation of the interpretation, and it's turtles all the way down.
The Holy Spirit guides us in understanding Scripture and opening out hearts and minds to it. The natural man does not understand it because it's spiritually discerned.
From Scripture, just like your *It is written...* ones.
That’s what I meant. I didn’t mean to post THEIR traditions.
Honestly, this is a no brainer since the first several hundred years of Christianity there was no NT canon at all. Though there were many writings that were shared and read in the gatherings, the list of 26 had not yet been formally declared.
Then, of course, there was no printing press for hundreds of years after the death of Christ so individuals rarely had a copy of the full text of Scripture for their own private reading.
There is no EXTRA teaching in Catholicism, just truths that some reject.
****SIGH*****
Scripture came from Tradition, not the other way around.
God revealed Himself not in written form but to men. The Old Testament came from the oral teaching/tradition of the Jews and the New Testament came from the oral teaching/tradition of the Early Church.
One cannot make a claim for the written word that it does not make for itself i.e. that it is the sole and final authority for all of God’s revelation.
******It is the absolute standard of truth by which all truth claims are to be made.*****
We have the perfect example that this is not the case in the Council of Jerusalem. What to do with the Gentiles?
There was nothing by which their decision could be measured and to stand as the sole and final authority to that decision. No written word to appeal to, no passage that could be provided as support. Here was a question which Jesus had not addressed.
Yet, WITHOUT such a written and sure guide, the Apostles knew they had to give an answer and were confident that the Holy Spirit had led them to the correct answer.
When the letter was written declaring their decision, there was no Scripture quoted.
No, He gave us the Church and its teaching authority along with the written Word which act as the pillar and bulwark of the Truth.
No neglect, nothing forgotten, nothing overlooked. God in His wisdom made provisions for the things that would come up that could not all be contained in a book.
Thank you for that link.
I guess at least one person rejects SS after thoroughly thinking it through:)
Just what are those traditions Paul was referring to that he handed down that we are to keep that were not included in Scripture?
*****How do you know?
How do you know they’re from the apostles, Paul in particular?
How do you know they’ve been passed down faithfully?
What is your source for verifying all of the above?
Please provide the sources for verification purposes. *****
The same way I know which books are in Scripture, through Christ’s Church, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
When 1 Timothy 3 says a Bishop must be the husband of one wife, what does that mean?
Please try to focus.
That response was to the claim that Catholics reject SS out of hand, in a knee jerk reaction, without thinking it through.
A specious assertion that is easily proven false by the existence of the many books written on just that subject.
What does John’s first epistle say?
What is “sin” according to John?
Thus what are we to do if we are to “go and sin no more?”
.
*****IS the clear and plain teachings of Scripture are beyond people’s ability to *correctly interpret* so is everything else.*****
Are all the teachings of Scripture clear and plain?
2 Peter 3:16 speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.
I know this by reading the epistles.
Yes, that is a snippet, that disregards the entire rest of the discussion to pretend that it was all they meant, but it clearly was not!
That is deception!
.
John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.
I asked and I received and I am a grateful Catholic.
My Church, the Church of my Lord Jesus Christ, teaches that salvation comes to me by the grace of God who has so loved the world that He sent His only Son into the World so that all who believe in Him may not die but have eternal life.
I would know this through His Church even had I never learned to read a single word of Scripture.
Another thoughtful response which is much appreciated.
However, I find that there is some discrepancy in what you write.
The first part of the quote from Timothy does not support SS since it is speaking directly of the OT and not the NT which did not exist at the time. It was to the OT that the Apostles appealed as a means of confirming Jesus to be the Christ and that with that knowledge, one may be made wise to the salvation which is from Jesus.
In the Greek, the word used to describe Scripture is not sufficient, but profitable which are two different things.
This merely speaks to the inerrant nature of Scripture and does not declare that it is only by Scripture that one may be know the Truths of God.
Then we must consider exactly what are the good works for which the man of God is made fit.
Since Jesus tells us that only God is good, we know that if Scripture speaks of good works, it must be speaking of thing of God. Therefore, the good works for which we can be completely made fit, must be the things which God calls us to do.
Now, this letter was written to Timothy who was converted to Christianity by St. Paul. A Jew because of his mother he knew the OT. St. Paul is giving a kind of pep talk to Timothy since he was not always with Paul who seems to be assuring Timothy that he is capable of doing what God has called him to do.
So to recap, this verse has Paul telling Timothy that he can trust his knowledge of Jesus based on what he knows from Scripture but if we look just a little before this verse we see that Paul precedes this verse with this...
14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it,
So, St. Paul is saying here, remember what I HAVE TAUGHT you and trust also in Scripture. IOW, trust both oral teaching and the written word.
*******So here’s the crux of the matter: If the Scriptures can completely equip the man of God, so that he is both wise to the way of salvation in Christ, and able to do everything a believer needs to do, and he can do this with God’s word, then by extension whatever may be learned about God outside of God’s word is either A) already expressed IN God’s word as well, or else 2) is not necessary either to salvation or to fully equipping the man of God for all righteousness. *****
I’m sorry, but that passage says that one can be wise, it does not say that one can know all things. There is a difference. One can be wise, knowledgeable and able to judge. There is not claim to the exclusivity of Scripture. I just showed you how Paul calls on him to remember what he, Paul, had taught him.
See post #631
Jesus told this little story to the pharisees who would not believe in Him even though they had knowledge of what was written of Him and would also know of His resurrection because they were hard of heart.
Just as today there are some who know Scriptures and know that Jesus rose from the dead and still do not believe.
A bishop, who is married, may be only married once and to one woman and if he is left without that one wife, he should not marry again.
It’s amazing what one can find down a rabbit hole!
Like SELLING indulgences?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.