Posted on 05/01/2014 3:25:30 AM PDT by GonzoII
Elsie,
Your hate for the Catholic Church has blinded your reason for scripture, and more sadly, is separating you from God.
Can you not make an honest attempt to open the Catechism? http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
Mary is dead ?? Really? She’s more alive in heaven with the rest of the Saints than you are on earth. The Saints in Heaven are not dead and they do intercede for man:
MT 22:23 That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27 Finally, the woman died. 28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?” MT 22:29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 `I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” (St. Luke’s Gospel 20:38 adds “for to him all are alive” or “for all live unto him”)
You still insist that God prohibits his Saints from interceding for him?
JOB 33:21 His flesh wastes away to nothing, and his bones, once hidden, now stick out. JOB 33:22 His soul draws near to the pit, and his life to the messengers of death. JOB 33:23 “Yet if there is an angel on his side as a mediator, one out of a thousand, to tell a man what is right for him, JOB 33:24 to be gracious to him and say, Spare him from going down to the pit; I have found a ransom for him’— JOB 33:25 then his flesh is renewed like a child’s; it is restored as in the days of his youth . JOB 33:26 He prays to God and finds favor with him, he sees God’s face and shouts for joy, he is restored by God to his righteous state.
JER 15:1 Then the LORD said to me: “Even if Moses and Samuel were to stand before me, my heart would not go out to this people. Send them away from my presence! Let them go!
2 Maccabees 15:11 When he had armed each of them, not so much with the safety of shield and spear as with the encouragement of noble words, he cheered them all by relating a dream, a kind of vision, worthy of belief. 12 What he saw was this: Onias, the former high priest, a good and virtuous man, modest in appearance, gentle in manners, distinguished in speech, and trained from childhood in every virtuous practice, was praying with outstretched arms for the whole Jewish community. 13 Then in the same way another man appeared, distinguished by his white hair and dignity, and with an air about him of extraordinary, majestic authority. 14 Onias then said of him, “This is God’s prophet Jeremiah, who loves his brethren and fervently prays for his people and their holy city.” 15 Stretching out his right hand, Jeremiah presented a gold sword to Judas. As he gave it to him he said, 16 “Accept this holy sword as a gift from God; with it you shall crush your adversaries.”
HEB 1:14 “Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?”
MT 17:1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus. MT 17:4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” MT 17:5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”
From the early Church Fathers...
“But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels...as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep.” ORIGEN On Prayer 11 AD 233
“Aschandius, my father, dearly beloved of my heart, with my sweet mother and my brethren, remember your Pectorius in the peace of the Fish [Christ].” PECTORIUS Epitaph AD 250
“Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence the first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy.” ST. CYPRIAN Letters 56(60):5 AD 252
“Mother of God, listen to my petitions; do not disregard us in adversity, but rescue us from danger.” Rylands Papyrus 3 AD 350
“You say in your book that while we live we are able to pray for each other, but afterwards when we have died, the prayer of no person for another can be heard...But if the apostles and martyrs while still in the body can pray for others, at a time when they ought still be solicitous about themselves, how much more will they do so after their crowns, victories, and triumphs?” ST. JEROME Against Vigilantius 6 AD 406
Mother of god is a pagan appelation.
Scripture tells us there is nothing motherly nor feminine in the kingdom of God.
Most of the dead so-called ‘saints’ to whom you pray are lost souls destined for the lake of fire.
The eucharist is the key to hellfire.
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And I'm the blind one?
Let's try some easy math:
There are approximately 1.2 billion Catholics world wide;
If merely 1% of them 'ask' Mary for help just once each day;
that means that 12 million separate prayers are headed Mary's direction every day.
Given that there are 86,400 seconds per day... (24 hours times 60 minutes times 60 seconds)
...that means that Mary has to handle approximately 139 'requests' per second!
Purty good fer someone NOT 'devine'!
You have absolutely ZERO evidence for the things your church has so boldly proclaimed.
A tidbit of scripture here; one from there and a little more from this place and by golly; we done got us some more doctrine!
Wow - quite the talented theologen. Mouth like that will surely drag a few willfull ignorants straight to hell. Hope you’re proud of yourself.
The lie of the eucharist has sent billions to hell; how many more do we need to fill the place up?
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Only if you are Bill Clinton or assorted other Dems, or a Catholic. If teaching is 'derived from Scripture', how can it mean anything else. Unless you are the same as those mentioned.
Catholics accept the authority of Scripture as just as binding as Protestants.
Except when it comes to their un-Scriptural dogmas. The ones surrounding Mary are a good example. Then Tradition trumps Scripture.
>> “Do you accept that what Jesus was doing when HE spoke those words was the yearly Passover meal of rememberance?” <<
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A common misunderstanding.
Yeshua’s “last supper” was a full 24 hours before the Passover meal.
The Passover is eaten AFTER the lamb is slaughtered and roasted, not before, The last supper was on a preparation day, which is why he was breaking the traditional barley loaf as the Melek Zedek did with Abraham the first time that blessing was spoken, not a matzo.
His commandment to his disciples was that each time they broke bread, and drank the wine, in the future, to do it in remembrance of him. (that is that the Lord’s death for their sins was to occupy their thoughts at every evening meal)
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>> “Then Tradition trumps Scripture.” <<
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More to the point, catholicism is 100% about the ascendency and perfectibility of Man, and zero % about the commandments of God.
Well then, surely the Apostle John who outlived Mary would have taught this important belief, since it is what the Church has always believed and taught-
. I have it on FReeper authority, that all the Apostles were Catholics. Where are these early teachings? The are required to be believed for salvation in the Catholic church, there must be one of the Twelve that wrote on it. John 20:31.
HMMMmmm...
Have you actually read Paul?
Through him we have received the grace of apostleship, to bring about the obedience of faith, for the sake of his name, among all the Gentiles, among whom are you also, who are called to belong to Jesus Christ. (Romans 1:5-6)Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I glory in my ministry in order to make my race jealous and thus save some of them. (Romans 11:13-14)
Because of this, I, Paul, a prisoner of Christ [Jesus] for you Gentiles—if, as I suppose, you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for your benefit, [namely, that] the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly earlier. When you read this you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to human beings in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit, that the Gentiles are coheirs, members of the same body, and copartners in the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. Of this I became a minister by the gift of God’s grace that was granted me in accord with the exercise of his power. To me, the very least of all the holy ones, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the inscrutable riches of Christ, and to bring to light [for all] what is the plan of the mystery hidden from ages past in God who created all things, so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the principalities and authorities in the heavens. (Ephesians 3:1-10)
It is Jesus Christ himself who said "This is my Body". You can rationalize your denial all you want but to believe him is to believe what he said.
Tradition is the what the Church teaches in her own name. What I have posted shows that the Church has been instituted by Jesus to teach with authority and not just quote Scripture. But if you want Tradition to be mentioned explicitly then perhaps you missed this quotation:
I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you. (1 Cor. 11:2)
From the Apostles.
A yes/no answer would be greatly welcomed here.
Yes.
Yes, they spent the day “making preparations” but the meal they had was not a Passover Seder.
Think for a change before clicking on post.
The scriptures make it plain that it could not have been a Passover meal, as they speak of preparing for Passover later, almost 24 hours later, after the crucifixion, when the Sanhedrin demanded that the men be removed from the crosses BEFORE Passover.
Get it?
The Greek texts make it plain that he broke a levened barley loaf, not a matzo, at the meal.
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>> “I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you. (1 Cor. 11:2)” <<
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Put on your thinking caps!
Clearly the “traditions” of which Paul spoke were written in Torah (Lev 23) being the “traditions” of keeping the feasts of Yehova.
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In the Hebrew language that Yeshua and the disciples spoke, “this is my body” would have conveyed “this represents my body” as translated to any other language.
The eucharist is satanic to its pagan core.
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