Was Babylon The Great a Symbolic Name for Jerusalem? Part II: Mother of Harlots and Sins of Sodom.

Apr 9, 2014 | PhilipFreneau

[Tzfat]

Literal? Jerusalem is a literal city. Not destroyed. It is the home to a million + Jews. It currently straddles 5 ridges, not 7 hills. Not ever.

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>The eighth [king] is of the seven and comes later yet.<<<

>>>Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.<<<

>>>The eighth beast comes near the end of this world which may be closer than we think.<<<

I don't see it that way at all. First, it says "kings," not "kingdoms." Second, there is a perfect fit with the seven kings and the first seven "kings" (emperors) of the Rome Empire. This is the verse:

"There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time." (Revelation 17:10 KJV)

And these are the kings:

Date                          Emperor

69 B.C. - 44 A.D.      Julius Caesar
31 B.C. - 14 A.D.      Augustus Caesar
14 A.D. - 37 A.D.      Tiberius Caesar
37 A.D. – 41 A.D.      Gaius (Caligula)
41 A.D. - 54 A.D.      Claudius
54 A.D. - 68 A.D.      Nero Caesar

Nero, the sixth king, persecuted the Saints for 42 months prior to committing suicide. The Seventh king was Galba, who was killed in office after only 6 months.

They really do fit the scripture perfectly. Regarding their identity as "kings," recall the verse where the Jews said, "We have no king but Caesar." (John 19:15.)

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>Unfortunately, you’re not even close to being right Philip... You’ve missed it by almost 2,000 years. ;)<<<

Why not 20,000 years?

Philip

[Let's Roll]

I thought it was the original name for Baghdad - seriously.

It does seems to be in Iraq south of Baghdad.

https://www.google.com/search?q=baghdad+babylon&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb#channel=sb&q=babylon&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

[TheThirdRuffian]

7 Hills is presumably a reference to Rome:



Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino) Caelian Hill (Caelius, Celio) Capitoline Hill (Capitolium, Campidoglio) Esquiline Hill (Esquilinus, Esquilino) Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino) Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale) Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_hills_of_Rome

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>After, all there certainly were stones left standing on top of one another in 70 AD, so that prophecy (and its associated prophecies) could not have been fulfilled at that time.<<<

What you have heard is most likely a myth: an urban legend. From all I have read, it seems that all the buildings were completely destroyed. If you have any proof whatsoever that there were parts of any of the buildings left standing, I will appreciate you providing it.

Thanks,

Philip

[Boogieman]

“If you have any proof whatsoever that there were parts of any of the buildings left standing, I will appreciate you providing it.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson%27s_Arch

[Boogieman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon%27s_Stables

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>Wasn’t it John and his band of bandits that were robbing and killing people and not a civil war?<<<

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

This was the initial parting into two factions:

IV.7.1. BY this time John was beginning to tyrannize, and thought it beneath him to accept of barely the same honors that others had; and joining to himself by degrees a party of the wickedest of them all, he broke off from the rest of the faction . . . the sedition was divided into two parts, and John reigned in opposition to his adversaries over one of them...

This is where it parted into three factions:

V.1,1. . . while [Titus] was assisting his father at Alexandria, in settling that government which had been newly conferred upon them by God, it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of Divine justice.

This section refers to the destruction of the food supplies:

V.1.4. And now there were three treacherous factions in the city, the one parted from the other... Accordingly, it so came to pass, that all the places that were about the temple were burnt down, and were become an intermediate desert space, ready for fighting on both sides of it; and that almost all that corn was burnt, which would have been sufficient for a siege of many years. So they were taken by the means of the famine. . .

Note that Titus has not yet arrived on the scene.

Philip

[TheThirdRuffian]

You can start with the Western Wall of the Second Temple. It's rather prominent and obvious.

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>... many of then still sit one atop another yet today. <<<

Who told you that?

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>The word Babylon means confusion. God is not the author of confusion. Harlotry can be physical or spiritual.<<<

What is your point?

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>I thought it was the original name for Baghdad - seriously. It does seems to be in Iraq south of Baghdad.<<<

Ancient Babylon was located in that area, I believe between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

Philip

[ravenwolf]

They really do fit the scripture perfectly.

---

I am with you up through the seventh king if it is literally speaking of those seven kings.

But what about the beast who is of the seven, and also the ten kings who did not have any kingdoms at that time and gives their power to the beast to destroy the whore?

[PhilipFreneau]

From your link:

“The arch was built as part of the Temple Mount’s massive western retaining wall, which forms its eastern support.”

How does that disprove the prophecy? There are others who believe, based on accounts by Josephus, that the so-called Wailing Wall was not part of the Temple mount, but was rather part of Fort Antonia or the wall of the city.

This site shows a diagram of the Temple on the left, and Fort Anatonia on the far right.

http://askelm.com/temple/t980504.htm

This is a quote from the site:

“What you are about the see in the illustrations at the conclusion of this Report is the description of the Temple and Fort Antonia as presented by Josephus, the Jewish historian. He was an eyewitness to the City of Jerusalem before the Romans destroyed it in A.D.70.”

These are other sites if you would like to compare:

http://templemountlocation.com/fortAntonia.html
http://www.becomingone.org/templemount.htm

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>You can start with the Western Wall of the Second Temple. It’s rather prominent and obvious.<<<

Except the so-called “Wailing Wall” was most likely not a part of the Temple. See my post #75 for more info.

Philip

[xzins]

You never responded to a comment I made on Jerusalem, Part I.

the 7 heads are 7 kings are 7 mountains

“9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings.”

It is an enduring SYSTEM.

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>You never responded to a comment I made on Jerusalem, Part I.<<<

I believe I stopped at this one (my numbering):

>>>1. But guilty of ALL the blood of the righteous? Hmmmmm. That doesn’t fit any of them.<<<

My response was, "Jesus said it did. He said Jerusalem was responsible for the blood of all the prophets."

Then you responded with this:

>>>2. Jesup gave parameters to all those prophets he meant. He named the names <<<

>>>3. The Revelation happened afterwards and in all those years from the time Jesus spoke more were numbered as prophets.<<<

>>>4. Agabus, for example, was a biblically acknowledged prophet who was outside the time parameters mentioned by Jesus and not among those named by Him<<<

That was such an incomprehensible response from you, with no scriptural support, I assumed that nothing I or Jesus said would make any difference.

If you care to clear up those four points with scriptural references, maybe we can continue our discussion.

Philip

[xzins]

What is incomprehensible about Jesus’ parameters being set and Agabus not being inside those parameters?

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>You never responded to a comment I made on Jerusalem, Part I.<<<

I believe I stopped at this one (my numbering):

>>>1. But guilty of ALL the blood of the righteous? Hmmmmm. That doesn’t fit any of them.<<<

My response was, "Jesus said it did. He said Jerusalem was responsible for the blood of all the prophets."

Then you responded with this:

>>>2. Jesup gave parameters to all those prophets he meant. He named the names <<<

>>>3. The Revelation happened afterwards and in all those years from the time Jesus spoke more were numbered as prophets.<<<

>>>4. Agabus, for example, was a biblically acknowledged prophet who was outside the time parameters mentioned by Jesus and not among those named by Him<<<

That was such an incomprehensible response from you, with no scriptural support, I assumed that nothing I or Jesus said would make any difference.

If you care to clear up those four points with scriptural references, maybe we can continue our discussion.

Philip