Posted on 03/19/2014 8:19:20 PM PDT by ealgeone
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SECOND EDITION
PART ONE THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SECTION TWO THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
CHAPTER THREE I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
ARTICLE 9 "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"
Paragraph 6. Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church
963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503
The words spoken to Mary were no different then were spoken to Jael in Judges. In fact, Jael was called blessed above women. Mary was called blessed among women.
Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Judges 5:24 Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be,
Those words were also spoken of Noah, Moses, and David.
The Greek word charitoó is used by Catholics to try to point to Mary being “full of grace” or “highly favored. The word charitoo according to Greek concordances is: From charis; to grace, i.e. Indue with special honor -- make accepted, be highly favoured. [http://concordances.org/greek/5487.htm]
The word is used twice in the New Testament. Once in Luke 1 and the other in Ephesians 1.
Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
“What is you basis for assurance that Rome is the One True and infallible Church?”
Well, it certainly can’t be any Protestant sect since none of them are even ancient. We know when they all started and none of them are older than 1517 really. They even admit it officially in their own documents.
Well we cannot escape the fact we do have the Holy Scriptures and they are authoritative. So we do well to obey the Written Words of God and examine our lives and practices with the Scriptures.
My point? The Scriptures are clear we are to only worship, honor, revere God. Their is no wiggle room. Such God commanded we are to teach and follow.
In some ways your comments are correct. Jesus gave few commands. The main mission He left with the disciples is thus:
Luke 24:44-49 NABRE
He said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and in the prophets and psalms must be fulfilled.” Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures.
And he said to them, “Thus it is written that the Messiah would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day and that repentance, for the forgiveness of sins, would be preached in his name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. And [behold] I am sending the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”
SS does not require Scripture to be wholly formally sufficient, as if all was clear and as if nothing else was required to understand it, except the text. And in fact it provides for what is required,as well as formally providing clear teaching so that one normally can be saved by reading perhaps Acts 10:36-43.
This was addressed earlier today. See here . Sorry you missed it.
The problem is that it is fine line btwn latria and hyperdulia. It should be kept in mind that my objection is not to Mary being honored as the holy chosen vessel to bring forth Christ, or even to allowing Gn. 3:15 to refer to Mary, but to the excess ascriptions, appellations, exaltation, and adoration (and the manner of exegesis behind it), ascribed to the Catholic Mary, whether officially or by Catholics (with implicit sanction of authority), and which uniqueness and exaltation parallels that of Christ:
For in the the Catholic quest to almost deify Mary, it is taught by Catholics*,
as Christ was sinless, so Mary was;
as the Lord remained a virgin, so Mary;
as Christ was called the Son of God, indicating ontological oneness, so Mary is called the Mother of God (which easily infers the same, and is not the language of Scripture);
as the emphasis is upon Christ as the Creator through whom God (the Father) made all things, including Mary, so it is emphasized that uniquely “to her, Jesus owes His Precious Blood,” shed for the salvation of mankind, (the logic behind which can lead back to Eve);
as Catholics (adding error to error) believe Christ gave His actual flesh and blood to be eaten, so it is emphasized that Mary gave Him this, being fashioned out of Mary's pure blood and even being “kneaded with the admixture of her virginal milk,” so that she can say, "Come and eat my bread, drink the wine I have prepared" (Prov. 9:5);
as Scripture declares that Christ suffered for our sins, so Mary is said to have done so also;
as Christ saves us from the condemnation and death resulting from the fault of Adam, so it is taught that man was condemned through the fault of Eve, the root of death, but that we are saved through the merits of Mary; who was the source of life for everyone.
as the Lord was bodily ascended into Heaven, so Mary also was;
as Christ is given all power in heaven and in earth, so Mary is “surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven.”
as Christ is the King of the saints and over all kings, (Rv. 15:3; 17:14; 19:16) so Mary is made Queen of Heaven and the greatest saint, and that “Next to God, she deserves the highest praise;”
as the Father made Christ Lord over all things, so Mary is enthroned (all other believers have to wait for their crowns) and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things;
as Christ is highly exalted above all under the Father, so Mary is declared to be the greatest saint of all, and as having a certain equality with the Heavenly Father;
as Christ ever liveth to make intercession for the saints, so is Mary said to do so;
as all things come from the Father through the Son, so Mary is made to be the dispenser of all grace;
as Christ is given all power on Heaven and on earth, Mary is said to have (showing some restraint) “almost unlimited power;”
as no man comes to the Father but through the Son, so it is taught that no one can come to the Son except through Mary in Heaven;
and as the Lord called souls to come to Him to be given life and salvation, so (in misappropriation of the words of Scripture) it is said of Mary, “He that shall find me shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord;” “that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will, that we obtain everything through Mary.”
And as Christ is given many titles of honor, so Mary also is, except that she is honored by Catholics with more titles than they give to the Lord Himself!
Mary was a holy, virtuous instrument of God, but of whom Scripture says relatively little, while holy fear ought to restrain ascribing positions, honor, glory and powers to a mortal that God has not revealed as given to them, and or are only revealed as being possessed by God Himself. But like as the Israelites made an instrument of God an object of worship, (Num. 21:8,9; 2Kg. 18:4) Catholics have magnified Mary far beyond what is written and warranted and even allowed, based on what is in Scripture.
In addition, although (technically) Mary is not to be worshiped in the same sense that God is worshiped, yet the distinctions between devotion to Mary and the worship of God are quite fine, and much due to the psychological appeal of a heavenly mother (especially among those for whom Scripture is not supreme), then the historical practice of Catholics has been to exalt Mary above that which is written. As the Catholic Encyclopedia states, "By the sixteenth century, as evidenced by the spiritual struggles of the Reformers, the image of Mary had largely eclipsed the centrality of Jesus Christ in the life of believers." (Robert C. Broderick, ed., The Catholic Encyclopedia, revised and updated; NY: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1987, pp.32,33)
The practice of praying to departed saints and Mary was one that developed, helped by pagan influences, for Scripture provides no example of any believer praying to anyone in Heaven by the Lord, and reveals that doing otherwise was a practice of pagans, including to the “Queen of Heaven.” (Jer. 44:17,18,19,25).
The Catholic Encyclopedia admits that a further reinforcement of Marian devotion, “was derived from the cult of the angels, which, while pre-Christian in its origin, was heartily embraced by the faithful of the sub-Apostolic age. It seems to have been only as a sequel of some such development that men turned to implore the intercession of the Blessed Virgin. This at least is the common opinion among scholars, though it would perhaps be dangerous to speak too positively. Evidence regarding the popular practice of the early centuries is almost entirely lacking...,” (Catholic Encyclopedia > Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary) Yet, as expected, it imagines this practice came from the apostles and NT church, but which never exampled or instructed it, and instead showed that the believer has immediate access to God in the Divine Christ, (Heb. 10:19), who is the all sufficient and immediate intercessor between God (the Father) and man. (Heb. 2:17,18; 4:15,16) To the glory of God
More .
“The words spoken to Mary were no different then were spoken to Jael in Judges.”
Jael was told that she was the mother of the Lord? That’s what the Holy Spirit inspired Elizabeth to say to Mary.
“The word is used twice in the New Testament. Once in Luke 1 and the other in Ephesians 1.”
Not the same word. Same root, different word. “kecharitomene” vs. “echaritosen”
Want to try again?
This is about making Mary into something she isn’t.
If there was problem with belief of who Jesus was, the best way to deal with it is to get back to Scripture and teach the correct teaching about Him. Renaming Mary does NOTHING to correct error regarding who Jesus is and all it does is sow confusion and deceit about Mary.
But considering the track record of the Catholic church, I can see why they’d not encourage people to get back to Scripture as the source of truth. Better to change it than point people back to it.
It's still a huge assumption.
The church perpetuating something as true when it's not only not found in Scripture but is directly contradicted by Scriptrue for a long time does not change a false teaching into truth.
The Holy Spirit never says that Mary is the mother of God.
The Greek word used that is translated *Lord* is not the Greek word for *God* and is never translated as *God*.
This is actually a negative argument, as the appeal to the mom resulted in the execution of the supplicant! Pray to the only wise God in Heaven as is only seen in Scripture, to which believers come directly. (Heb. 10:19) with only 1 mediator. (1Tim. 2:5) Thanks be to God.
No it doesn't because if someone had never heard of Jesus, they would not know that *mother of God* meant *mother of Jesus*.
There is simply no way for anyone to deduce that from the term unless they had been indoctrinated by Catholicism.
Well, it certainly can’t be any Protestant sect since none of them are even ancient. We know when they all started and none of them are older than 1517 really. They even admit it officially in their own documents.
Well then why is it RCs cannot answer simply basic questions. Will you even try?
If you reject the authority of the Second Council of Nicaea, that's your choice, but not one that I would advise.
You consider Moses "departed" despite the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:1–9, Mark 9:2–8, Luke 9:28–36)? Isn't God the God not of the dead, but of the living (Mark 12:27)? If we are not to honor our elder brethren in the Faith, those whom you call the "departed," why did Peter in Acts 3:13 say "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus."
Speaking of the Gospels and epistles, who decided which ones belong in the canon of Scripture?
“This is about making Mary into something she isn’t.”
Mother of my Lord - said Elizabeth under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
“If there was problem with belief of who Jesus was, the best way to deal with it is to get back to Scripture and teach the correct teaching about Him.”
And scriptures says - Mother of my Lord - said Elizabeth under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
“Renaming Mary does NOTHING to correct error regarding who Jesus is and all it does is sow confusion and deceit about Mary.”
It’s not a name. It’s a title: Mother of the Lord.
“But considering the track record of the Catholic church, I can see why they’d not encourage people to get back to Scripture as the source of truth. Better to change it than point people back to it.”
Mother of my Lord - said Elizabeth under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit - in Luke 1:43. Is that verse in your Bible or not?
That's correct because the one true church, the body of Christ, is NOT a denomination or organization.
It's a living organism comprised of all born again believers in Jesus.
“It’s still a huge assumption.”
Nope. Are you assuming Luke 1:43 is not in the Bible?
“The church perpetuating something as true when it’s not only not found in Scripture but is directly contradicted by Scriptrue for a long time does not change a false teaching into truth.”
So Luke 1:43 is “not found in Scripture but is directly contradicted by Scriptrue”? Really? And yes, I know you were talking about something else.
Yes, any honor paid to anyone who has lived out the Faith should be to the glory of God.
Why not? Who cares what the opinions of a committee are?
They were nobody special unless you've been convinced by Catholicism that they were.
But that does not equate to being anything special in God's economy.
It says Lord, not God.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.