Who Needs Works?

What The Bible Says About ^ | Rev John Odhner

[Nifster]

I wrote a college paper on this whole subject. Don’t make me drag it out.

One can pick and chose a single bit here and there to ‘bolster’ whatever argument they want. It doesn’t include context, general teachings of the NT, or even analysis of who the audience was that the original writings were for.

I will not argue with you over this. Grace is given by God. I have already commented on the fruit of the tree.

Grace is not faith

[redleghunter]

I recommend examining Acts 16. The jailer witnessed the Power of God and asked the same question.

[redleghunter]

Agreed. How do we all measure up to those perfect standards? Paul tells the Law is our tutor. Tutor in the sense of exposing our sins and imperfections.

I agree we all must be dragged up the sharp rocks of Mt Sinai before the deliverance of Mt Zion makes any sense.

[CPO retired]

Thanks for the very helpful and informative post. I have always been suspicious of people who say “faith alone” saves. I was saved by grace when I didn’t believe (or trust) God. All I had done was to ask his help.

There is an preacher who say’s “faith alone” and who has had some shady extramarital affairs. I would like to know what amends and forgiveness he has done (or not done) around his infidelities.

[redleghunter]

>>Many don’t want a salvation they can’t work for and prove themselves worthy of.<<

Indeed. On the other hand it may be a function of some don’t want to give up the darkness for light. So believing they can redeem themselves by works they think any good works or penance will overwhelm the bad. I encountered such in conversations with Iraqi Muslims.

Your reference to Moses lifting up the serpent in the wilderness is VERY thought provoking. In that some establish God’s plan of salvation seems too “easy” and there must be “more.” Such thoughts establish a mindset that we know better than God.

[DaveMSmith]

2 Cor 7:10 For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

[redleghunter]

Hardly a contradiction. James is railing against dead faith as any good pastor should be doing if observed in their assembly. Obviously James saw some proclaiming faith in Christ but allowing fellow believers to go naked and cold. How could such a regenerated heart pass a brother in need? I think that was his point and James is right in that matter. Jesus commanded the disciples to love each other as HE loved them. Tall order there. James was pointing IMO if we love Christ we will do what He told us to do. And each according to their God given abilities.

[Jim Noble]

What then is the point of judgement? As in, Last Judgement? As in, sheep and goats? As in, wheat and chaff?

[redleghunter]

A typical straw man which many like to beat.

So to dispense with such...If we love Christ we will do what He told us to do. We do what He told us to because of His Grace we have passed from darkness into light.

[G Larry]

Did your paper include any of these, in context citations?

James 2:24
James 2:26
Gal 5:6
1 Cor 13:2
John 14:15
Matt 19:16-17
—
Romans 8:24
Eph 2:5,8
2 Tim 1:9
Tit 3:5
—
Phil 2:12
1 Peter 1:9
—
Matt 10:22
Matt 24:13
Mark 8:35
Acts 15:11
Romans 5:9-10
Romans 13:11
1 Cor 3:15
1 Cor 5:5
Heb 9:28

---

Matt 7:21 - not everyone saying “Lord, Lord” will inherit the kingdom of heaven
Matt 24:13 - those who persevere to the end will be saved
Romans 11:22 - remain in his kindness or you will be cut off
Phil 2:12 - work out your salvation in fear and trembling
1 Cor 9:27 - drive body for fear of being disqualified
1 Cor 10:11-12 - those thinking they are secure may fall
Gal 5:4 - separated from Christ, you’ve fallen from grace
2 Tim 2:11-13 - must hold out to the end to reign with Christ
Hb 6:4-6 - describes sharers in Holy spirit who then fall away
Heb10:26-27 - if you sin after receiving the truth, judgement remains

[redleghunter]

>>“The power of sin is the Law”. Grace is the only option for believers, and I suggest again that, just as many Israelites bizarrely refused to look at the lifted up serpent, so do many today refuse to look to Christ ALONE. He did the work. Resting in that finished work allows a person to freely “work hard in The Lord” without falling under the curse of the Law.<<

Post of the day.

[metmom]

Acts of the Apostles has many examples of those who hear the Gospel believe, received the Holy Spirit and were baptized.

And that is stated up front, before anyone has the opportunity to sit back and judge their works to see if they were saved or not.

[metmom]

Ephesians 2:4-10 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Saved by grace when we were yet dead in our trespasses and sins. Before we did any *good works*.

Saved by grace, the GIFT of God SO THAT NO MAN CAN BOAST.

If our works count towards anything pertaining to attaining our salvation, then we have something to boast about before God. And He has already disallowed that.

The good works we are to do to walk in are works HE prepared for us to to, to walk in them, to walk them out. Even the works are a gift from Him. They are prepared by Him for us ahead of time so that we can do them. So we can't even take credit for the good works we walk in, so that no man can boast.

Catholicism allows too much room for boasting before God and man. And that is seen regularly here when non-Catholics are being condemned for not doing good works which no one has any way of knowing whether someone is doing them or not.

But that doesn't stop Catholics from sitting in judgment on non-Catholics, accusing them of not doing good works, but rather sinning with impunity, presuming on the goodness of God, all the while not knowing a THING about the life of the person they're accusing.

If our works contributed to our salvation, it would not be on the basis of God's grace and mercy, and it would not be a gift.

The chutzpah displayed by Catholics with their spiritual pride for *belonging to the OTC* is staggering.

[metmom]

Indeed. On the other hand it may be a function of some don’t want to give up the darkness for light. So believing they can redeem themselves by works they think any good works or penance will overwhelm the bad.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

These are all people who appealed to their good works to save them.

[Salvation]

Acts has accounts also of how they helped each other in their community, correct? Sharing food, etc.

[metmom]

So believing they can redeem themselves by works they think any good works or penance will overwhelm the bad.

But God's standard is absolute perfection, not good outweighing the bad. That's man's thinking.

Matthew 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

James 2:10-11 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Seems that Catholics neglect to post these verses.

Be perfect. The one who fails in one part of the Law becomes guilty of it all.

And we know that the wages of sin is death. That's why our works don't contribute to attaining or keeping our salvation. They are tainted with sin, even the best of them, and cannot erase the debt we already owe. That is only done by forgiveness.

[metmom]

Acts has accounts also of how they helped each other in their community, correct? Sharing food, etc.

Yeah. So?

Is that how they got saved?

Is that how they stayed saved?

Or do you suppose that those are the works that God prepared for them beforehand to walk in and they did it out of obedience, not to stay saved but because they were saved?

[Salvation]

We all need to remember that Catholics do not believe in “earning” their way into heaven through ‘works’.

But it doesn’t hurt to follow the words of Christ as posted above.

[redleghunter]

James 2:23 NKJV

And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.

[redleghunter]

James 2:23 NKJV

And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.