Posted on 03/06/2014 6:06:04 AM PST by Ex-Episcopalian
I would like to know what FReepers think of Joyce Meyer, the prolific speaker, author and teacher. I write book reviews for my church, and I worked on a review of "God Is Not Mad At You". A friend at church told me that Meyer's theology is very controversial, so I asked my pastor about it. He said that he would not want to promote a book by Meyer because of some things she has said, for example, Jesus went to hell to pay for our sins, was forgiven by God, and was the first born-again man. I know that is wrong because the payment for our sins was full and final on the Cross, Jesus did not have to be forgiven for anything, and was certainly not born again. We are born again. Any comments on this or on Meyer in general? Thank you.
I’m sorry, but I watched her daily for several years and she did not wear stockings with seams.
In fact, she has toned her wardrobe down somewhat. When I first started watching her she wore fancy suits, think ‘mother of the bride’ type suits. These days she may very well appear on stage wearing slacks and a top.
re: “He alone could do this because He did not inherit the sin nature all of us have from Adam.”
I totally agree that if Meyers truly said Jesus went to hell and was “forgiven” for His sin - that is not a Biblical teaching.
In fact, I’ve never heard of her until mentioned here in this thread.
However, that idea that “Jesus did not inherit Adam’s sin nature”. I’ve always wondered about that. Does that mean that Jesus could not/or did not have the ability to sin?
I believe that the Bible teaches that we are all born with a “bent to sin” - that that IS the sin nature. We all are tempted by sin, and we all, since Adam, give into sin against God.
If Jesus was born “fully human” - did He not need to have the ability to sin - just as all men have? If He didn’t, then I’m not sure He was fully human as we are.
If you define the “sin nature” as being born condemned already with Adam’s sin, then you have babies born condemned sinners just because they are “born”. I don’t believe that is Biblical theology.
I believe that the “sin nature” is that we are all born with the ability and “bent” (tendency) to sin. The First Adam, at his creation, was not yet a sinner. But, he did sin by disobeying God and thus brought sin and death (physical and spiritual) into the world. Everyone is now born with this “sin nature” to give into sin and disobey God - and, we all have at one point or another.
So, my question is, does the sin nature mean that we are born guilty from the womb (or even in the womb)? Or, is it that we all have that ability to sin, and all of us have sinned?
If Jesus did not have a sin nature like us, then how was He tempted by Satan? It says in Hebrews 4:15 -
“For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.”
If Jesus did not have a “sin nature” (the ability to sin and the fallen human ‘bent to sin’) how could He be “tempted in all points as we are”?
The wondrous thing about Jesus is that, though He was born fully human, with the ability to sin, yet He never sinned. He was the Lamb without spot or blemish because He resisted sin and overcame it and even took our sin on the cross and destroyed it and death. This is how He is the Second Adam that Paul mentions.
I am not trying to be provocative, but I do think that Jesus had to have been born with a human sin nature, just as we are, or He would not have been one of us. He had to know what it was to struggle against sin, to be tempted by sin. The only way for Him to know what that was like was to be born with a “sin nature” - if you define that nature as not being guilty/condemned because he have that nature, but we are guilty because we ALL sin - but, Jesus never did sin.
We still have to do our part too. OSAS is a false doctrine of many non-Catholic believers.
of the Catholic Church, no. 198
Catholic belief is succinctly expressed in the profession of faith or credo called the Nicene Creed:
The Nicene Creed
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
(At the words that follow, up to and including "and became man." all bow.)
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
IPeter 3 and 4 describe this journey. While in the tomb ... Christ preached to all the souls/spirit intellect back to the days of Noah and they were offered salvation. I have no doubt that Abraham is Christian. The holy prophets, etc.....
Correct, the word “Hell” here refers to the place of the dead, Christ did, in regards to his Human Nature, experience death. So as the Eucharistic prayer correctly states [I am synthesizing here] Christ took on our human nature and was like us in all things, yet with no sin, etc. He went to the place of the dead, not the place of the eternally damned. Christ did Die and as another Eucharistic prayer states [Mystery of Faith] Dying you destroyed our death and rising you restored our life, etc.
Which angels? Genesis 6, they are coming back.
Yet, none of that stuff is owned by the Pope. It is not there property, they can’t sell it, or use the money to buy cars and summer homes and winter homes, they can’t own anything in the Vatican. None of the artwork and Churches done by countless Catholics down thru the centuries is the personal property of anyone.
Your comparison is BS
IF you want to do a book review then read the book. Joyce is not my cup of tea, as they say. I need more of what God said and a whole lot less of what any flesh body has to say.
There is NO REASON for any Christian to be rich. Especially rich pastors, preachers, etc. They are hypocrites! How much money does anyone actually need? No one needs a private jet, mega yachts, antique car collection, mansions, jewelry worth insuring, etc. You don’t need to be a pauper, you can enjoy the fruits of your labor, but an excess of wealth is a death sentence says Jesus Himself.....
Mathew 19:
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
As Christians, we have done a lot of work with many Christian organizations/groups/ people. We had a joke around the office….. if they were a Christian org, the cost was double, because things never were as they were projected to be, and never went the way they should have. We were conned to try to get a price for one thing, and it turned out to be 3 times as much work, or it was of a far inferior quality and took us much longer to accomplish, or we just never got paid in full.
We worked with her organization extensively a few years back and didn’t have one lick of problem with them. The work was as stated, we were paid promptly, and we felt “That is how to present Christ as part of your work”. Quite a change from our norm.
When the bling bling is large (private jet, mansion, etc.) skepticism inevitably rises- as it should. She ain’t living humbly or simply, like a Billy Graham. There are a few other birds (of a feather) running their personal goldmines under the guise of doing the Lord’s work. They’re all on thin ice at best.
Clearly you have been listening to what men have to say that God said. God has demonstrated He will use whatever/whomever, He needs to use to keep His plan on track. He did after use a jack-*ss to get the attention of a preacher for hire. I can tell you have not read Acts 2:17 or Joel 2.
**The Pope, the Cardinals, and most bishops live in a royal splendour that would rival that of any monarch.**
This is false. Where are you getting this information? Or is it merely your opinion?
Whatever-—at least people who didn’t know now have an idea.
I don’t like change—I’m old! Leave me alone-—LOL!
WRONG! It all belongs to “The Catholic Church”. It certainly can be sold, and should be, to feed the poor and advance the gospel. The material wealth of the Catholic Church or any church with excessive wealth and property, is an abomination.
The church books should read
Collected $ XXX
Spent $ XXX
Net profit $ 0
I agree, and much more interesting than yours was.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;
so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
And we get so called Bible thumpers claiming all this was fulfilled in 70 AD... They won't have a clue when the show begins.
Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were *fair*; (little racism there by the Heavenly Father in our insane politically charged atmosphere.) and they (sons of God = fallen angels) took them wives of all which they chose.
Noah and his family were the only ones left from the Adam seed line already destined to provide the genealogy through which Christ would come, that had not 'mixed' with the sons of God. (Genesis 6:9) The Heavenly Father was protecting His seed line to Christ, and the devil and his host were doing everything they could to pollute it.
Well, this bunch are coming back to this earth for a final time. That is what Christ warned us to be aware of what to expect.
It's nice to think of babies being born innocent. But the problem with this is that we would be encountering immortals not tainted by human sinful contact. They, having no sin, would not have death. But this is contradicted by Romans 5:12 "all died", that is, all under Adam die by default under sin and death. This is further confirmed by the duplicate Psalms 14 and 53, quoted by Paul in Romans 3. On their own 'None' , 'No not one' escaped it.
The "sin nature" is the gravity or propensity to sin that we have inherited from Adam which quickly manifests itself as sin and opposition to God, both overt and covert and to do things ones own way.
The Lord Jesus Christ, being conceived, God made flesh, by the Holy Ghost was born of a woman (Mary) was not of Adam's line, did not inherit the sin nature from Adam, was fully human and was tempted by Satan. But resisted and rejected the temptation fully and went obediently to the cross where He paid the Hellish price on His body for the sins of folks like you and me.
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