Posted on 02/15/2014 10:52:59 AM PST by NKP_Vet
No, I didn't say that,
Yes, you most certainly did say it, you also said it again in this post which I am going to quote in a few seconds. I am, in fact, the one who has not typed that in any of my posts in the form of a statement or a question or otherwise.
People ASSUME that is what I think, but they are wrong.
"What a woman thinks about bearing her rapists child I suppose does matter to a point,"
You are getting warmer. What you should say is that it matters entirely and above everything else, because it is, IN FACT, THE DETERMINING FACTOR IN WHETHER OR NOT THE BABY LIVES OR DIES.
"So you answer my original question...does the murder of an innocent child matter (regardless of the circumstances of conception)?"
Yes, it matters, and that is why I have stated quite clearly and numerous times how to address that in the only possible manner that can result in the baby not being killed.
However, no one here seems to be able to wrap their heads around that, so I'm just going to assume that they are all pro-abortion and are fine with these babies being aborted, since it's quite clear that they can come up with no effective tactic or strategy to address it outside of hoping and praying, which are not effective tactics or strategies.
Not a rape here, but she was told to abort. If she had listened to the doctors................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AahnOYYj9o
So let me see if I understand this.
You are saying that the reason you assume her choice is going to be abort is because of what I have said in these posts in this thread on freerepublic...
Let's have a reality check. Reality in America 2014 is that the baby doesn't have a right to live unless the mother gives the baby a right to live by consenting to its birth.
Is that correct? Would you not agree that is a correct assessment of reality in America 2014?
"For me no person has the right to take another’s when that person has done them no harm. The way the child was conceived is irrelevant. It has the same right to live as the rest of us."
That a very interesting ideal, and certainly one I support, however it is not reality in America in 2014, is it? A person most certainly does have the right to do exactly that
So how do you intend to effectively address that right? What is your OODA on that situation? I certainly HOPE that in your case it's something more than HOPING AND PRAYING, because that isn't going to accomplish your goal, which is why I listed the only viable strategy to accomplish that goal, and for doing so, I am called pro-abortion ;/
That’s great, I’m very happy she didn’t.
As you can see, all women will not choose to abort if given the choice.
“Would you not agree that is a correct assessment of reality in America 2014”
No my reality. Throw the party of death out the door and start electing, both to public office and the US Supreme Court, moral men that do not believe in murdering their own.
Only then will this American holocaust end. 60,000,000 murders and counting since Roe v. Wade legalized murder in this country.
No, the issue with it being a small number is, even though it is a small number liberals use it as a talking point like a hammer. Just as you are. It is hard to defend murdering babies so they grasp any straw. I have and will counsel women against having an abortion. When abortion was made legal we were assured few would use that option, mostly victims of rape/incest and some who were so young “it would ruin their life to have a baby” well as it turns out most abortions are done for convenience and so no one- man or woman will have to take responsibility for their actions or their life struggles. The number of abortions is staggering...yet we hear the same drivel about why it needs to be legal. Abortion is murder, there is no excuse to be allowing the murder of millions of babies.
Many of us find ourselves in a difficult situation, we have to take responsibility for that situation even if it came about through no fault of our own. Abortion is sold as a solution, it is not a solution for any problem. In my opinion adding an abortion to a rape is just adding more problems. I have talked to many women that have had an abortion over the years, even one that did get pregnant from rape. It didn’t solve their problems, they have added issues from dealing with the abortion. Any reasonable person knows murdering a baby is wrong, even most that have an abortion find that instead of solving their problems they have more to deal with. Imagine the guilt of murdering a baby- under any circumstances. A civilized person or society would not sanction abortion.
Abortion is not a choice or decision, it is murder.
Meant to say “Not my reality”. Wish there was an edit feature on FR but I can’t find one.
No, it wouldn’t be okay, and I’ve never claimed that abortion isn’t murder. It is. I don’t support mid or late term abortions under any scenario. If it’s to be done then it must be done very early.
At the risk of you saying I'm putting words in your mouth, what I think you are saying is, "I don't support mid or late term murders under any scenario, but if murder is to be done, it must be done early."
I have known women who have had abortions and they all agree on one thing: If they had it to do over again, they would opt against the killing of their child. They tell stories of the guilt, the nightmares, the always constant reminders of how old their child would have been.
What you advocate is heartless and chilling. Yes, a woman in such circumstances will give up nine months of her life, but that pales in comparison to killing another human being. You seriously err in the contention that the baby's life is that of the mothers to take. It isn't. That life belongs to God, not to any human including the woman whose body the child is currently residing in.
One of the Commandments tells us not to murder. I don't recall any "unless" clauses attached to it.
and that’s how the Mormons gave us a Mormon president...
Stanley Ann Dunham was dead dunked several times in various Mormon temples, starting in June 2008..
Then she was “endowed” “temple married” to Barak Obama Senior, a bigamist with THREE other wives (but remember this is Mormonism so that’s acceptable)
She was given other Mormon honors among them the much coveted and exclusive so called “second anointing” (Only Mormons like the Romneys and Harry Reid and Tommy Monson and a few select get this one) She also got a forever temple recommend, whether she ever uses it or not, having not paid one red cent of that 10% extortion money errr club dues errr tithe. (Remember she is at present lying in her grave still dead.)
and then she was so called “sealed” to her children Barak Obama Junior and Malia Soetoro, thus making them temple Mormons and passing on all those honors to them also. (Note: They didn’t have to pay one red cent of that 10% tithe to get their forever temple recommend either. Nor did they have to die first)
Now there is no way to reverse or “restore” any of this situation back to the way it was since the Mormons just don’t have any secret or sacred or plain or precious scriptures or instructions from the Mormon god Joey Smith about this awkwardness of ending up with a black Mormon president due to this pagan silliness called Mormonism nor is there any milk or meat rules.
and Stanley Ann Dunham hasn’t objected to any of this sacrilege done in her atheist name, nor is she ever going to start drinking booze or smoking or drinking coffee or apostating so it is what it is now.
Due to the Mormon’s own religious rules they stuck their racist selves with a black Mormon president..it seems the Mormon gods really didn’t think any of this through back there at that first council in the sky with the brothers Lucifer and jesus.
Yes, that’s right, if murder is to be done, it has to be done early.
And what I advocate is giving the woman the opportunity to give her consent, which was denied to her by a rapist.
Beyond that, what she decides is up to her, and it is not up to me or you.
I will never tell her that she must deliver the child or go to prison.
I would certainly advise her that it is my opinion that delivering the child is indeed the right thing to do, because it is. But it’s up to her, and it’s going to be up to her whether the law allows it or not, because she can end it anytime she wants by any number of means, and there’s nothing you can do about it.
In the very least, the most you can ever possibly hope to achieve is being able to punish the behavior after it occurs, but there is no practical way that you can prevent this from occurring.
I would also add, as I have stated many times before in this thread, that those who think such a law will ever be passed and upheld in this country are engaging in sheer fantasy.
It will never happen, nor should it.
She has the right of consent.
It is so easy to be a back seat driver due date is all most here what have other tried to do to prepare for the return of the Lord, could it be none were called there fore no instruction were given??
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Feb 15, 1845 - Sidney Rigdon asks, in the LDS newspaper MESSENGER AND ADVOCATE “Did the Lord ever tell any people that sleeping with their neighbor’s wives and daughters had any thing to do with preparing the way of the Savior’s coming[?]” Ridgon’s daughter, Nancy, had been approached by Joseph Smith and asked to become a secret plural wife. This caused a rift between Rigdon and Smith.
what does building up Zion (Temples) have to do with the poor it does not take money away from the poor,
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Yeah Ansel the Mormons don’t associate with poor people...
why in SLC the homeless and non-tithepayers are segregated from the rich and prosperous..
The homeless have their own Mormon “ward” in SLC ..
they don’t even allowed to get to go to a regular ward house let alone a temple..
what does building up Zion (Temples) have to do with the poor it does not take money away from the poor,
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Yeah Ansel exhorting 10% tithe out of poor people is not called “taking money away from the poor”
Its called “building a strong character”
this take real effort of studying, pondering what you read an praying to receive a witness from the Holy Ghost if these things are true or not?
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Resty all you had to do was place your face in your hat...
Feb 15, 1870 Oliver Cowdery’s widow, Elizabeth Ann Whitmer Cowdery Johnson, a daughter of David Whitmer, made a statement regarding the translation of the Book of Mormon. “I cheerfully certify that I was familiar with the manner of Joseph Smith’s translating the book of Mormon. He translated the most of it at my father’s house. And I often sat by and saw and heard them translate and write for hours together. Joseph never had a curtain drawn between him and his scribe while he was translating. He would place the director in his hat, and then place his face in his hat, so as to exclude the light, . . .”
I have never had an issue with people exacting justice.
Family member is murdered?
Put the POS cretin in a room, slice their Achilles and put out their eyes. Give the victim’s families machetes and axes and close the door for a day or two.
Let the people have at it, not the government
The instruction to Noah’s family (all of us) and the ideas of a Magistrate to act on behalf of the people works just fine in a moral society. Plato’s republic and the enlightened, benevolent Kings etc . . .
I have a problem with a corrupt government choosing, convicting and then killing people. Adolf did it. Mao did it. Uncle Joe did it. Bull Connor and other Dems in ole’ Dixie did it. FDR wanted to do it. Obama wants to do it.
Take the plunge. Revenge is a personal thing. We can all face our Creator with a clean conscience if we were protecting innocents. A government that kills people is a kind of hell waiting to take over.
I wouldn’t have said it if it wasn’t true, the Mormons do very well recruiting Catholics, and on FR they have, and have had a large amount of Catholic support.
You can knock off the tribal allegiance and just accept the facts as they are.
Don’t personalize everything, according to Catholic answers more than half of the converts to Mormonism are Catholics.
As far as Catholics here being so defensive for Mormonism, I am looking at some old threads right now and recognizing many of them, it is why I started posting the catholic church’s position on Mormonism, and photos of the Pope John Paul II decision on Mormonism, I was trying to awaken Catholics like GOP_Lady who were radical defenders of Mormonism and who fought the Christians exposing Mormonism.
Even now after so many of them have moved on from FR, you still should notice that the Catholics are either hostile to critics of Mormonism, or in most cases, they avoid the threads and/or the topic entirely.
Fighting Mormonism just doesn’t interest Catholics, and the Mormons thank them for it, on some of the old threads you can actually see some of that gratitude expressed, as the Mormons set up a kind of team work with some of the Catholics.
“FACT: Each year, the Mormon church baptizes 300,000 converts. (That’s 800 a day—or another million every three years.) Half are former Catholics.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2014063/posts?page=84
Ground Control to Ansell2,
Mormans remain one of the very few faiths that have to be BAPTISED if they enter the Catholic Church. Mormanism is a non-Christian cult. As different from Catholicism as night and day.
http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon327.htm
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/mormon-stumpers
http://www.truthandgrace.com/Catholiconmormon.htm
http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/camorm2.htm
Faith without reason is foolish. Reason without Faith is pointless. Both are dangerous. How awesome is our Catholic Faith, the perfect complements of Faith and Reason.
“Mormons believe in the existence of many gods in the universe, the god of this world being one among many. But the Word of God clearly proclaims there are no gods but the God revealed in Divine Revelation, He is the first and the last (Isa 44:6, 24; 45:5, 18). I heard the scriptural maneuverings that fellow Mormons used to deny the meaning of these verses, but for me they were clearly confirming monotheism.
I remember now these and dozens of moments culminated in me falling to my knees one night in our little missionary apartment and crying out to God, “Heavenly Father, all I want is the truth. If the truth is in Mormonism, I will serve you until my dying day here. If the truth is somewhere else, give me the courage to face what that will mean for me.” That prayer fundamentally changed the trajectory of my life. I was ready to accept wherever truth would lead me.
Ultimately, I left the Mormon Church, but like many fellow Mormons who have ceased to believe the claims of the LDS Church, I floundered. Was there a God at all? Is there an objective truth or is it all subjective? When you have been deceived for so many years, it is hard to trust anyone. Again, I prayed that God would help me find someone to talk to about my crisis of faith.
I was in Provo, Utah (one of the most densely populated Mormon cities in the U.S.), and opened the paper that day to find a little ad about a Christian bookstore. I felt God’s peace and decided to visit it that day. It was staffed by a smiling bearded little man behind the counter. I wandered around for a few minutes, and then promptly vomited my story on this unsuspecting little store manager. It felt like such a burdened lifted to tell someone of my journey. His response was unexpected. He practically did cartwheels across the bookstore. You see, he was a missionary too. A missionary to Mormons.
He had left a lucrative job in New York to answer God’s call on his life to staff a Christian bookstore in the heart of Mormonism and provide a “safe place” for them to come and explore their doubts, and the truth about God. He was there for someone just like me. Tony led me to the Christ of Sacred Scripture, discipled me in Christian growth, and baptized me a Christian in a little lake south of town. I eventually became very involved as a new Christian, and to make a long story short was ordained a minister in the Missionary Baptist denomination, a largely African-American sect.
It was that same community in the south, that had so faithfully witnessed Christ to me, and I was welcomed with open arms into several faith families. As you can imagine, as a former Mormon, I had a heart to help other Mormons, especially missionaries, to share in my discoveries. I began to actively seek them out, and would simply engage them in respectful dialogues that encouraged them to use their reason and explore the Word of God. I knew the Sacred Scriptures were a living reality, and had the power, along with clear Christian witness, to lead them to the truth if they were disposed to God’s grace.
Many of these discussions led to often-heated discussions about the doctrine of the Trinity, a teaching as I mentioned above, is rejected by Mormons. They have what I call a “Dan Brown approach” to Church History that believes that Catholics “invented” the Trinity at the Council of Nicaea in AD 325. I wanted to show them that not only was the Trinity revealed in Sacred Scripture but believed and taught by the earliest Christians from the very beginning up to that fourth century council. To do that, I scoured libraries and electronic sources for early Christian writings, and discovered as so many Catholic converts before and after me, the Church Fathers. Not only did I find a clear and constant witness to the central truth of the Trinity, but a whole series of eye-opening teachings: Marian devotion, prayers to saints, the reservation of relics, a Church hierarchy of bishops, priests and deacons, and most importantly, the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
I was overwhelmed, always believing that these distinctly Catholic teachings were medieval developments. Now I stood at another crossroad. I questioned whether I had the courage and resolve to follow through on what I was learning. By God’s grace, I committed myself to that prayer for truth I had prayed while a Mormon missionary.
I worked with a Catholic man who lived his faith openly, a person of virtue and infectious joy, so I began to pepper him with questions and concerns. Kelly didn’t always have the answers for me, but he always found them and returned to me with a book, brochure or cassette tape. He told me about RCIA, a way of systematically learning about the Catholic faith, and invited me to my first Mass.
Again, like many converts, I was struck in my first Mass how I was being transported to the banks of the Jordan and confessing with John the Baptist, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world,” I was joining the triple-cry of God’s holiness from Isaiah 6, I was confessing with the centurion the Lord’s power to heal me if he would only speak the word. I was ushered into the heavenly liturgy of Revelation chapters 4, 5 and 8.
In a word, I was home.
I remember on the night of Easter Vigil, 1996 standing in my white robe, candle in hand by the Vigil fire in joyful anticipation of what would soon occur, my full welcoming into a new spiritual home and the reception of Christ in the Eucharist. God carried my heart and mind back to that little missionary apartment so many years before where I had prayed that desperate prayer. I would have never imagined that my cry for Truth would have led me to this moment. But God also whispered to my soul that ultimately Truth was not just correct theology, Truth was a Person (John 14:6). And if that’s true, there is no place to experience Truth more profoundly and intimately that when we receive the Eucharist.
In a burst of love, on altars all over the world, Truth steps out of heaven’s courts, humbles himself in a host and chalice. He displays his love for us, not simply in inviting us to a meal, but becoming our food, so that he might enter us and change us from the inside out. I can’t begin to thank God for his faithfulness to me in my journey, but I can express my gratitude by telling everyone I can about this Gift, and being ready always to give an answer to anyone who asks me of the Hope that is within me! (1 Peter 3:15”
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