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To: imardmd1
"Through foreknowledge, The Father of The Lord Jesus Christ knew that Esau was going to choose a life that would not involve repentance from dead works, nor committed trust in Him."

Curious...since you claim to understand Scripture, please provide a passage supporting this claim because it certainly does not comport with the rest of Chap. 9. The passage says "...before they did anything good or bad so that God's choice might stand." And, Paul argues that many will find this "unfair".

"Jacob feared and trusted The God, a choice God also foreknew, before either twin was born, and for which His Son, The Lamb of Calvary, was predestined to be slain from the foundation of the world, because of Adam's and Eve's sinfulness (which was inherited by all their progeny)."

If the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (agreed) was known before Eden (after the foundation of the world), then did God foreknow the outcome of Eden? Thus, could there have been an alternate outcome? But, if there is no alternate outcome, then Eden was planned and executed exactly as intended. Otherwise your definitions of "predestination" and "foreknowledge" are so malleable as to have no substance...

31 posted on 02/04/2014 12:40:59 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88
If the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (agreed) was known before Eden (after the foundation of the world), then did God foreknow the outcome of Eden?

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" (Is. 46:10 AV)

Seems to me that He knew what the outcomes would be. Either (1) Adam would not eat of the "tree" of good and evil, or (2) eventually if/when Adam would eat of that "tree", he would die in spirit to The God right away; later physically when Sin/entropy took its toll. O course, Adam's soul was not designed to die, ever.

Is not that kind of obvious?

32 posted on 02/04/2014 5:54:30 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: Dutchboy88
Curious...since you claim to understand Scripture, . . ."

I understand some Scripture from other Scripture that describes and defines it.

"Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you" (Prov. 1:23 AV).

I do not understand all Scripture, for sure. Sometimes I just make educated guesses, but hold neither myself nor others to it. When that happens, I just try to make it clear that it is probable, not absolute.

However, The Omniscient God having foreknowledge, as claimed here, is absolute. You can't surprise The God.

. . . please provide a passage supporting this claim . . .

I did in another response to you--Isaiah 45:11.

. . . because it certainly does not comport with the rest of Chap. 9.

Oh, it most certainly does, but apparently it has not come to your attention that The God already knows which, in the end, ones eternal destination is. However, He does not make our choices.

As my friend, the reform school counselor teaches his recalcitrant youthful inmates: "Mind your ABCs. Actions arise from Beliefs, and have Consequences." His job was to help them reform their beliefs, not merely suppress their actions.

Satan wants humans, born into Sin as a master, to believe in him and in ourselves his subjects, rather than in The God and Christ as our Master; with The Holy Ghost as obeyed Counselor in our choices.

We, as Esau and Jacob, are/were in Adam's Reform School; and the big singular determining individual choice in this life is whether or not one acknowledges sinfulness, unreservedly and unfailingly commits trust in God to save him/her, and receives His power to abandon sin and cling to His Dear Son, the Promised Messiah.

"What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith" (Rom. 9:30 AV).

Faith that leads to salvation comes first, consistent actions demonstrating the faith comes afterward.

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (Jas. 2:18 AV).

Esau failed to make the right choice while repentance was still available:

"And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years" (Gen 6:3 AV).

Not that God didn't try.

33 posted on 02/05/2014 1:50:18 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: Dutchboy88
Please forgive me the error I just made in Post 33 on this. I let my fingers do the walking on my keyboard and not my brain. I gave you the wrong and confusing reference:

Post 31: . . . please provide a passage supporting this claim . . . (Dutcboy88)

Post 33: I did in another response to you--Isaiah 45:11. (imardmd1)

That response was my Post 32 to your Post 31, and the verse quoted was:

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" (Is. 46:10 AV)

The things to be done by The God in the future presumes omniscience, including a foreknowledge of things to be done by others in the future, or to be thought by others in the future (the others perhaps not having yet even been born), to which His counsel is, or will be (and is also foreknown) a fit response.

Of course, all Biblical prophesy inherently embodies this aspect of His omniscience and foreknowledge, as stated obviously in Isaiah 46:10. N'est ce pas--Is it not so?

34 posted on 02/05/2014 6:16:52 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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