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To: PhilipFreneau
Your preterist(partial, if you will) view holds that all was finished in the year 70, and we are stuck at Revelation 20:6

You are contradicting yourself. Either all prophecy is fulfilled (the Preterist view,) or some (Rev 20:7-15) is not (the Postmillenialist and futurist view.)

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you were not a full/hyper preterist, and that you are believe you are stuck somewhere in this part of prophecy Rev 20:5-7. I thought you already wrote that.

You have indicated you do not believe in a literal interpretation of Revelation (no 1000 year reign, etc.), except when it suits you (144,000 Jews, etc.). You also hold that there are two general resurrections and two returns of the Lord Jesus to this planet. You wrote that the first resurrection is only for Jews and occurred in 70 AD. No Gentiles were allowed in. All the Gentiles you wrote about in your posts (209) claiming there was no difference between Jew and Gentile. Yet in 70 AD you agree there was an immense difference. You write the first resurrection occurred, all the Gentiles were left behind, only the elect (Israel) were resurrected and raptured, and the elect (Israel) have been reigning in heaven with the LORD in their new bodies ever since. Somehow the number 144,000 is very literal to you here. The logical outcome of your eschatology is that the Gentiles unworthy vessels, were left without any of the benefits of Jewish leadership (most of the early believers were Jewish) as they tried to carry on the faith, and drifted into error that is only now being corrected by you and Dr. Gentry. I think this explains why you just called the Catholic Church an "old-age cult."

I think in your quest for knowledge you do err greatly. "The book" is the book of life. The resurrection in Daniel seems to parallel that in Revelation as well.


922 posted on 02/10/2014 8:15:56 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began, q)
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To: af_vet_1981
>>>I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you were not a full/hyper preterist, and that you are believe you are stuck somewhere in this part of prophecy Rev 20:5-7. I thought you already wrote that.<<<

LOL! Where are you stuck in the prophecy? How many more futurist false prophets do we have to endure?

I am a postmillennialist by necessity. I don't believe anyone who reads Jesus' plain words literally, whenever possible, can be otherwise. One has to resort to allegorical or "spiritualized" interpretations to believe a full-futurist doctrine.

Postmillennialists, by definition, believe that the millennial kingdom began during or within a generation after the ministry of Christ. Preterists, on the other hand, believe all prophecy has been fulfilled. It is a fact, however, that many do not know the definition of preterist; and some know, but pretend they don't.

The reason I believe the "kingdom" began before AD70 is because Christ said it did:

"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." (Mat 11:12 KJV)

Other references that insist the Kingdom of God was in place during Christ's ministry:

"But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you." (Mat 12:28 KJV)

"Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." (Mark 1:14-15 KJV)

"And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question." (Mark 12:32-34 KJV)

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:20-21 KJV)

"And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." (Mark 9:1 KJV)

>>>You have indicated you do not believe in a literal interpretation of Revelation (no 1000 year reign, etc.), except when it suits you (144,000 Jews, etc.).<<<

Actually, I believe the 1000 year reign lasted about 1900 years. That is when, historically, I personally "see" Satan creeping back into the picture. The 144,000? All I know is the remnant was small. It could have been more or less. Exactly 12,000 from each tribe would be a pretty neat trick, but an unnecessary one.

>>>You also hold that there are two general resurrections and two returns of the Lord Jesus to this planet.<<<

Wrong.

>>>You wrote that the first resurrection is only for Jews and occurred in 70 AD.<<<

That is correct. Daniel said the same thing.

>>>No Gentiles were allowed in. All the Gentiles you wrote about in your posts (209) claiming there was no difference between Jew and Gentile. <<<

I never said Gentiles were not allowed in. I have implied all along they were not part of the first resurrection because of the clearly stated mission of Christ in Matthew, and the clearly stated heritage of the firstfruits in the Revelation.

>>>You write the first resurrection occurred, all the Gentiles were left behind, only the elect (Israel) were resurrected and raptured, and the elect (Israel) have been reigning in heaven with the LORD in their new bodies ever since.<<<

Spiritual bodies:

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." (1 Cor 15:50 KJV)

>>>Somehow the number 144,000 is very literal to you here.<<<

Not necessarily. I did not elaborate.

>>>The logical outcome of your eschatology is that the Gentiles unworthy vessels, were left without any of the benefits of Jewish leadership (most of the early believers were Jewish) as they tried to carry on the faith, and drifted into error that is only now being corrected by you and Dr. Gentry.<<<

I cannot decipher that. Please restate. But if you were claiming my Gentile wife is a unworthy vessel, I strongly disagree! She was heaven sent.

>>>I think in your quest for knowledge you do err greatly.<<<

I think you greatly err.

>>>"The book" is the book of life. The resurrection in Daniel seems to parallel that in Revelation as well.<<<

It is: the first resurrection in Chapter 20 is the one Daniel was referring to. It happened in AD70. You posted lots of scripture with no comments, including this:

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." (Daniel 12:1)

Please comment on the scriptures you post so I will know what you are implying. For example, I am going to explain why Dan 12:1 doesn't fit a futurist scenario:

Whose people does Michael stand up for? Daniel's.

Who are Daniel's people? The children of Israel.

Who was written in the book or life about 70AD? We don't know, but I would guess they were mostly, if not all from the children of Israel.

To whom was Jesus sent? To the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Mat 15:24.)

Now let us look at the next verse:

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Dan 12:2 KJV)

Does it say all will awake? No, its says "MANY." Therefore, there must be a second resurrection, otherwise all will not stand before Christ, as is written here: Romans 14:10. Maybe that is why Jesus called the first resurrection the "FIRST RESURRECTION."

:)

Philip

924 posted on 02/11/2014 9:04:37 AM PST by PhilipFreneau
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