According to Scripture (Sola Scriptura)

http://www.catholic.com ^ | Tim Staples

[NKP_Vet]

"If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!" That belief, commonly known as sola scriptura, was a central component of all I believed as a Protestant. This bedrock Protestant teaching claims that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith and morals for Christians. Diving deeper into its meaning to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism about twenty years ago, I found that there was no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors and no book I could read to get a better understanding of it.

What role does tradition play? How explicit does something have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? Does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How can we determine the canon using sola scriptura? All these questions and more pointed to the central question: Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?

[PhilipFreneau]

Me: >>The seven churches in Asia were exactly what they are called: “the seven churches in Asia!”<<

You: >>>>Who said they were not? I certainly didn’t. I simply said they were representative (aka examples) of what error can creep into churches and what needs done to correct. Surly your reading comprehension is better than what I see here.<<<<

Where does it say they are "representative" Churches. Where does it say anything except they are "THE seven churches in Asia?" I know that you are voicing a dispensational myth, and that is most likely all you have ever heard; but I want proof of your speculation.

I repeat: there is no foundation to dispensational doctrine. It is based on selective interpretation.

Philip

[restornu]

opinion is an opinion

neither you nor I know, some like to speculate, some like to beat others over the head for having an opinion.

The scriptures say women came from Adams rib....

What we do know is that the only begotten Son of God enter the world naturally!

[CynicalBear]

>>No, I am implying that your selective-literalism doesn't wash. Show me where these angels are Satan's angels:<<

Daniel 10: 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Daniel 10:20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

>>There were these angels of Satan, but notice they were only allowed to hurt men, not the earth:<<

Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

>>I could have misread. It is a very complicated book, loaded with imagery.<<

Yep.

Revelation 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

If a third part of the grass and trees were already burned in the first trumpet judgment why do it again in the fifth? Different focus of the judgments.

[CynicalBear]

>>No, no one can.<<

Then why did you assert so affirmatively that NO flesh and blood can inherit without understanding what kind of body we will have when we are resurrected? You seemed rather sure that our resurrected bodies will not be some kind of perfected flesh.

>>Under your assumptions, will they be the bodies we had when we die?<<

I made no assumptions. I simply asked you if you knew whether or not our resurrected bodies would be some type of perfected flesh or not. Now you tell me you don’t know either.

>>I don’t know. You tell us.<<

You don’t know whether Adam’s body was flesh and blood?

[restornu]

Elsie your reply has no relationship to my post!

***

I had enough of hearing mainstream traditions..

I receive my instruction from the Lord not getting caught up in the Tradition of Men what they have been peddling from the beginning of time.

Man only needs to pray and let the Lord edify truth and where to fine his word

Eph 4

17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles& walk, in the vanity of their mind

What does that have to do with my reply NOTHING just outfield rants...

[CynicalBear]

>>Did he send his son in vain? Did he send him to save the world, only to turn around and destroy it?<<

Your getting more obtuse by the post. We heritage gardeners understand that a seed has to be planted and “destroyed” for more and better seed to come.

>> You reply is hard to follow.<<

I don’t doubt that for a minute. The spiritual things are hidden to those who don’t have the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[restornu]

I am sorry you feel that way...

[CynicalBear]

>>Where does it say they are "representative" Churches. Where does it say anything except they are "THE seven churches in Asia?"<<

So scripture isn’t for our teaching today?

[CynicalBear]

>>I have found that one must take this into account.<<

You are right and I should have clarified myself on that. I do realize they think they are quoting scripture. Corrupted as we know their scripture is.

>>The mormons don’t believe they are preaching “another” gospel...thus your premise and arguments to that effect are null and void...from their perspective, they are preaching the “restored” gospel.<<

You would think they would have thought to include what they teach in the correction of the scriptures to show that the apostles taught what they teach. Or at least take the verse out the Paul uses to show that if anyone preaches something they didn’t to consider it accursed. They must have overlooked that little piece of information.

[CynicalBear]

>>The Gentile Roman armies tread the old-covenant holy city for forty and two months, or 3.5 years, ending in 70AD.<<

Yeah, and all the years since it’s been heaven on earth over there in the middle east.

[restornu]

These are the only places that antichrist is mentioned.

No there is more....

1 John 2:18

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

• 2 John 1:7

  7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

• 1 John 2:22

  22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

• 1 John 4:3

  3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

• Antichrist — The Guide to the Scriptures

  Anyone or anything that counterfeits the true gospel plan of salvation and that openly or secretly opposes Christ. John the Revelator described the antichrist as a deceiver (1 Jn. 2:18–22; 4:3–6; 2 Jn. 1:7). The great antichrist is Lucifer, but he ...

• Korihor — The Guide to the Scriptures

  An antichrist in the Book of Mormon who demanded a sign as proof of God’s power; the Lord caused Korihor to become dumb (Alma 30:6–60).

• Christs, false — Bible Dictionary

  Matt. 24:4–5, 24; Mark 13:21; Luke 21:8; John 5:43. See 1 Tim. 4:1–7; 2 Pet. 2; Jude 1:4–19. See also Antichrist.

• Antichrist — Bible Dictionary

  A word used by John to describe one who would assume the guise of Christ but in reality would be opposed to Christ (1 Jn. 2:18–22; 4:3–6; 2 Jn. 1:7). In a broader sense it is anyone or anything that counterfeits the true gospel or plan of salvation ...

[restornu]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3116855/posts?page=663#663

[restornu]

Con’t

D&C 98

11 And I give unto you a commandment, that ye shall forsake all evil and cleave unto all good, that ye shall live by every word which proceedeth forth out of the mouth of God.

12 For he will give unto the faithful line upon line, precept upon precept; and I will try you and prove you herewith.

13 And whoso layeth down his life in my cause, for my name’s sake, shall find it again, even life eternal.

14 Therefore, be not afraid of your enemies, for I have decreed in my heart, saith the Lord, that I will prove you in all things, whether you will abide in my covenant, even unto death, that you may be found worthy.

15 For if ye will not abide in my covenant ye are not worthy of me.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/98.12?lang=eng#11D&C 128

21 And again, the voice of God in the chamber of old Father Whitmer, in Fayette, Seneca county, and at sundry times, and in divers places through all the travels and tribulations of this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! And the voice of Michael, the archangel; the voice of Gabriel, and of Raphael, and of divers angels, from Michael or Adam down to the present time, all declaring their dispensation, their rights, their keys, their honors, their majesty and glory, and the power of their priesthood; giving line upon line, precept upon precept; here a little, and there a little; giving us consolation by holding forth that which is to come, confirming our hope!
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/128.21?lang=eng#20

[PhilipFreneau]

You:>>>Daniel 10: 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

You: >>>Daniel 10:20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.<<<

What does that have to do with the passages in the Revelation that I quoted?

Me: >>>There were these angels of Satan, but notice they were only allowed to hurt men, not the earth:<<<

You:>>>>>Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees,till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.<<<<<

I am not believing you did that. This is what I posted for Rev 7:3:

"Show me where these angels are Satan's angels:" This is what I posted for Rev 9:11:

"There were these angels of Satan, but notice they were only allowed to hurt men, not the earth:" Look above and see how it ended up in your reply. You took the second header, and the first verse, and pretended that was my post. I am sure it was an unintentional, careless blunder. In any case, your comparison makes no sense.

You: >>>Revelation 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.<<<

You: >>>Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.<<<

You: >>>If a third part of the grass and trees were already burned in the first trumpet judgment why do it again in the fifth? Different focus of the judgments.<<<

LOL! This is what is written:

1) Rev 8:7 -- the first angel sounds, and all green grass is burned up. One of the four angels from Rev 7:3 was responsible for the destruction. There is no mention that angel was one of Satan's angels. It does not say how long it will take to burn up all the grass, but he also burns up a third part of the trees.

2) Rev 9:4 -- after the fifth angel sounds, there was still grass, and those released out of the bottomless pit were ordered not to hurt the grass, but "only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."

Again, there is no mention whatsoever, that I have found, that Satan's angels had anything to do with the destruction, other than the destruction of men. Therefore, all destruction of the grass and trees, if it is literal and worldwide, as you seem to imply, is caused by angels of the Lord.

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

Please confine your posts to books in the traditional protestant bible. If the chapter and verse is not listed in my King James Version, I won’t read it.

Thanks,
Dan

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>You seemed rather sure that our resurrected bodies will not be some kind of perfected flesh.<<<

I try not to be sure of anything, spiritually, that is not written in the Bible. I would recommend you take the same approach. I am posting again what Paul and Peter said, for the benefit of others:

Paul compared our two body states--natural vs spiritual--to terrestial vs celestial bodies :

"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." (1 Cor 15:42-44) So, Paul says, there is a "bodily" resurrection: but not of the natural body:

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." (1 Cor 15:50)

"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." (1 Cor 15:53-54)

Peter said essentially the same thing:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you," (1 Pet 1:3-4)

"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever." (1 Pet 1:22-24)

What part of that do you not understand?

>>>You don’t know whether Adam’s body was flesh and blood? <<<

That wasn't your original question. I answered your original question. Why pretend that I did not? Are you that insecure that you have to resort to misdirection?

Philip

[CynicalBear]

All that and you still don’t know what the “heavenly body” consists of.

[SZonian]

Your Alinskyite comment notwithstanding...

“feel” nothing...the facts speak for themselves...you have yet to show where, in the Bible, that the temple rites are essential for salvation...not exaltation as taught by mormons, salvation.

[restornu]

Sorry to see you joint the ranks good to be aware of...

Isaiah I Posted was from the King James

I use the King James too.. many here do not use the King James version they use the something like NIV.

I wonder what folks will do the day which there will be more text to comes to light, that was not Canonized by the Tradition of Men almost 300 years after Christ debating what the nature of the Godhead who did this on their own with the request of the current government several changes
have been over a 800 year span with each counsel meeting.

Things that did not fit the protocol was omitted, deleted
or change to abide by the day.

All the missing books that are made reference to in the scriptures was not include.

When those authors such as Scofield and other I am sure they also used secular history to advance their options, not that I agree with them, but one can always learn something new that they had not been aware of.

The Lord has given us discernment to recognized what is part of his work.

One dose not have to be LDS to appreciate the Book of Mormon even if treated like a noble surely people read nobles. The Book of Mormon is a good read.

Everyone is so busy debunking how many have with a contrite spirit and humble heart prayed to the Lord for counsel?

Maybe there wasn’t time... or maybe the pleasure of ones own mind is enough...

as in Eph 4 17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

Where are those things the Lord promised in

Eph 4 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

As I witness daily on this forum always contending over the Lord’s doctrine, that was set in motion by the Tradition of Men.

There is no unity in the true Word of the Lord here!

.....but there is a closing of the ranks to defend the Tradition of the Men version of the Word of the Lord.

Luke 9
26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

don’t read you might melt..

6 And behold, how oft you have transgressed the commandments and the laws of God, and have gone on in the persuasions of men.

7 For, behold, you should not have feared man more than God. Although men set at naught the counsels of God, and despise his words—

8 Yet you should have been faithful; and he would have extended his arm and supported you against all the fiery darts of the adversary; and he would have been with you in every time of trouble.

9 Behold, thou art Joseph, and thou wast chosen to do the work of the Lord, but because of transgression, if thou art not aware thou wilt fall.

10 But remember, God is merciful; therefore, repent of that which thou hast done which is contrary to the commandment which I gave you, and thou art still chosen, and art again called to the work;

11 Except thou do this, thou shalt be delivered up and become as other men, and have no more gift.

In all due respect

[restornu]

You know that was heart felt I said nothing unkind... but never mind!