- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
In post 9, '.45 Long Colt' said: "Every sin is mortal, FRiend."
Then in post 33, 'Campion' replied to '.45 Long Colt': "1 John 5:16-17 explicitly says that you're wrong."
In post 42, 'Former Fetus' said: "Scripture does not distinguish between mortal and venial sins, that is a man-made distinction."
Then in post 114, 'Brian Kopp DPM' replied to 'Former Fetus': "Your scripture must not include the first letter of John."
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal. 1 John 5:16-17 - Revised Standard Version (RSV)- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Then in post 202, I replied to both 'Campion' and 'Brian Kopp DPM': "I see that no one has even come close yet to making a sane and cogent reply to your incisive references to 1 John 5:16-17."
Then in post 233, you replied to me: "Then you are not looking hard", and pointed me to your post #196 which is addressed to a completely different post and poster, and which tries to wrongly and inaccurately re-interpret what was said, and to fuzzily refocus and rephrase it to make it essentially meaningless.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'daniel1212', let's try this again. Two posters made the erroneous claim that there is only mortal sin, and that there is no such thing as non-mortal sin. The Bible in that reference given by the other two posters here (1 John 5:16-17) says the exact opposite, i.e., that there most certainly is such a thing as non-mortal sin. Either the Bible is true and right and there is such a thing as non-mortal sin, and those two posters (and you) who glibly claim there isn't any such thing as non-mortal sin are completely wrong, or they (and you) are right, and the Bible is wrong there in 1 John 5:16-17.
'daniel1212', let me clear it up for you right now, and forever hopefully. What the Bible says in 1 John 5:16-17 is 100% true and right, whether you like it or not. No matter what kind or amount of prevarications, or bloviated obfuscations, or interminably and exhaustingly wearying posts with endless lists of totally unrelated Bible references and obviously erroneous interpretations given, or any other kinds of nonsensically rambling rantings anyone posting here might choose to post (which have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the subject being discussed in those specific posts being directly addresssed here), they cannot change that simple fact: that what the Bible clearly and plainly says in 1 John 5:16-17 is 100% true and right, and that anyone who claims it is not is 100% false and wrong.
There most certainly is such a thing as a non-mortal sin, just like the Bible plainly and unequivocally says in 1 John 5:16-17.
I hope that clears it all up for you once and for good. (I have to go back to work now.)
Like I said before:The way I understand this passage is that “death” refers here to physical death, because John is writing to believers and we know that the child of God has eternal life. John is saying that believers can commit a sin for which their heavenly Father will remove them from this life physically, perhaps because they are disgracing Him, perhaps to stop further sinning... Look for example at Ananias and Sapphira in the book of Acts. They were were guilty of a lie and God chose to end their lives.
I am really busy and haven’t had time to really interact on this, but I will quickly say that 1 John 5 does not prove Rome’s categorization of sin. That chapter speaks to the sin of BELIEVERS only, not of every human being. When dealing with Scripture, context is key.
I stand-by my initial statement: all sin is mortal. In other words, all sin leads to spiritual death, for “the wages of sin is death.”
I don't think you are going to clear much of anything up...Of course the verses are true but I don't see you attempting to explain the verses...They certainly don't stand on their own as far as understanding...Unless of course you are Catholic and can just make up what you want to make up...
There is sin NOT unto death...And how do you guys arrive at what those sins are??? You make it up...
What you need to do is look at the very next verse (18) and contemplate THAT for a few months, or a couple of years...
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not
If you think so then you still are not reading much.
I responded that even the smallest sin is mortal as it renders you a sinner, which is true (see below) and thus in need of redemption on Christ's blood-expense and credit. And then showed that there are distinctions made btwn sins as far as their degree of evil, which should have been done if you are going to understand 1 John 5:16-17. And besides dealing with the related issue of purgatory, i should have dealt more with 1 John 5:16-17.
The fact is that no one even bothered to show from Scripture how that there are are differences in degrees of sin except to show there is a sin unto death, but which would not be unto death unless the wages of sin was death in the first place.
Two posters made the erroneous claim that there is only mortal sin, and that there is no such thing as non-mortal sin.
Which is what i addressed, that this could refer to the fact that all sins are indeed mortal, for to break one law makes you a lawbreaker, and "the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord". (Romans 6:23) Which is the ultimate death, eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire. (Rv. 20:14)
In addition, as i referenced before, we see in Acts 5 how that even lying can be a sin unto physical death which is where the accountability factor that i explained comes in. And which is necessary in considering "sin unto death." And as also said, there were many more capital sins in the OT.
Do you affirm or deny this, and argue that the only mortal sin is 1 John 5:16-17? If so, and if it refers to believers, as per the context, and spiritual death, then it is because any sin is unto death that believers are warned there is sin unto death, which would be apostasy, for by denying Christ any sin would send him to Hell. Here are 40 of them . And apostasy is not necessarily one, but as Heb. 10:26 warns about impenitently sinning willfully after knowing the Truth (synonymous with conversion in 1Tim. 2:4) it can be the culmination of a Christi-denying life.
And indeed, it is noted that 1Jn. 5:16,17 lacks the definite article "a:"
There is a problem with the typical English rendering in 1 John 5:16-17 of the clause, “a sin unto death.” Greek has no indefinite article (i.e., no “a” or “an”) and the inclusion of it can be misleading. The Greek literally reads, “if anyone sees his brother sinning sin not unto[12] death.” If John had a specific and known sin in mind it would be more appropriate to use the definite article with “sin” (i.e., “the”). The clause would then read, “the sin unto death.” Here John is addressing not a specific sin or single act, but a particular class or kind of sin.[13]
The Catholic Haydock commentary states that, "The difference cannot be the same as betwixt sins that are called venial and mortal;... interpreters commonly understand a wilful apostacy from the faith, and from the known truth, when a sinner hardened by his own ingratitude becomes deaf to all admonitions, -http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id279.html
'daniel1212', let me clear it up for you right now, and forever hopefully. What the Bible says in 1 John 5:16-17 is 100% true and right, whether you like it or not.
Heart-Rest, let me clear it up for you right now, and forever hopefully. What the Bible says in 1 John 5:16-17 is 100% true and right, and which i never denied but affirm, whether you wanted to see that or not. But it was superficially dealt with.
No matter what kind or amount of prevarications, or bloviated obfuscations, or interminably and exhaustingly wearying posts with endless lists of totally unrelated Bible references and obviously erroneous interpretations given...
Which fomenting, twice-ignorant slander one might say indicates you suffer from Roman reactionary syndrome (RRS), which prevents one from objectively examining and even understanding what Scripture or anything else that refutes them is saying, as indeed to do so in order to ascertain the veracity of Rome's claims is discouraged.
The fact is that the treatment of this was superficial, and you should have welcomed more light, which actually affirmed there were different classes of sin, but instead the usual reaction kicked in. Here is what i wrote which exposes that your reactionary syndrome is just that.