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Salvation was actually charging boxlunch with "posting stuff that is not true,"

Ah, I see that now, and had seen that particular comment, along with many other repetitions of the same from an assortment of persons, that "we gave you the Bible" meme, which is gross distortion when not outright lie, all bound up with and "justified" by yet more grotesque bundles of distortions if not lies. Though oft repeated, none here are particularly guilty themselves of having crafted them...

They would burn us both, alive, if they could get their hands on us. wait...what's that I hear...? is it "we" don't do that anymore..? oo-kay, but then what's up with this "we" when it comes to the "we gave you the bible"?

It's the royal "we" when not much applicable at all, in that it was a bunch of JEWS, over many centuries, who gave us the "bible", regardless of how some may wish to massage the data at this late date, viewing it all through Romanist lenses (and demand others accept the distortions of their own skewed "sight") but it's just persons, individuals in the past, when it comes to having yielded themselves over demons enough to end up roasting the flesh of their own fellows, and/or those whom would not submit to that same royal "we" which is so casually bandied about on a daily basis.

They are the sons and daughters of their spiritual forebears, all right, and to *some* of those, the words of John the Baptist to the Pharisees ring out to this day, in that they are or become the progeny of those past days "royal we" Pharisees in their seeking out always the high seats for themselves, making certain to give all notice of their own dedication in demonstrations of the strictest of "observances" and publicly pronounced pious prayer.

Understanding TODAY that all those outward gestures of the Pharisees availed them nothing but the fiercest of condemnations from that Baptist, that crucial forerunner to Christ, still, ordinances, concerning "observances" along with special considerations and rules in regards to particular posture one must assume (according to "tradition") are given credit towards being avenue for one to earn some shorter stay in an all but entirely inevitable stay in Purgatory.

What would John the Baptist have to say about doctrines of Purgatory? How about the Apostle Paul? It is that man's words they have distorted, by the application of the VERY SAME sort of approach the Pharisees had used in their own apprehension² of the nature of God, as revealed in the various texts.

As those Pharisees sought out John's "ceremony", upon them approaching him, he said to them;

Oh you generation of vipers! Who has warned you of the wrath to come?

Scarcely understanding, to this very day, few among the royal "we" of the Romanists seem to understand the deeper meaning of that ritual, that "royal we" having long ago reduced the same to the sprinkling of infants (a "magic" ceremony, which under their authoritative hands spiritual forces, God included(!) must be either compelled or constrained, reducing it all to being much as witchcraft, good intentions, even the purest of those aside) who themselves cannot know when sprinkled, what the tax collectors and prostitutes knew, when they themselves were to be baptized.

It means "we" according which century those in the never-changing chameleon church are in. In one century we have papal sanctioned killing (murder) of theological dissidents, but which could not be wrong then because Rome defines what it right, and RCs here have defended as being what was best for the souls of those slain, as well as the unity secular force enabled being set forth a model for the superiority of her sola ecclesia. And which mean many RCs seem to long for, contrary as it was to the NT church (nothing new) .

But having lost her unholy secular power to enforce her ecclesiastical law, later Rome says say such was wrong.

[Error condemned] That heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit. Exsurge Domine, Bull of Pope Leo X issued June 15, 1520 http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo10/l10exdom.htm

I was thinking along the same lines recently. How quick some are to lay claim to all the glorious acts of the "we", yet, when not so glorious acts are committed by those in their hierarchy - acting in their official capacity, it is merely acts of individuals who are sinners like everyone else. Duplicity and hypocrisy running rampant for all with objective eyes to see.

Luther - and all his "progeny", by implication - was condemned as sinfully wrong and in error when he stood up to the debauchery and simony of his superiors, much like Jesus was also reproved for not bowing his knee to the religious leaders of his day who had perverted the way of true faith. He was crucified because he rebuked their sinfulness and refused to back down. Luther would have also been murdered had they gotten their hands on him.