Replies

Harley,

In reference to John 6:37, regarding those the Father "gave" Christ. I believe Jesus was referring to his disciples, only. Let me explain:

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." (John 17:9-12)

He lost Judas, but Judas was not given to him; but rather was an instrument of another fulfillment. The next passage shows the distinction between the disciples and other Christians. First Jesus Speaks of his disciples, whom were chosen by God to serve him while he was on earth; and then those, like us, who confess our belief in him:

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 17:20-21)

In this next passage he implies the ones God gave him will tell the world about him, which they did: they wrote the New Testament, and they preached the gospel to "all the world:"

"And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:23-24)

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." (Mat 28:18-20)

"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" (Col 1:23)

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." (Rom 10:17-18)

Of course, their notion of "all the world" was the Roman Empire. Notice the last verse in the John quote: John 17:24. He said, "I will that they. . . be with me where I am." And they are with him, forever. They serve, along with the prophets, as the foundation of the Holy Temple:

"Now therefore ye [Jews and Gentiles] are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." (Eph 2:19-22)

The disciples also serve as the foundations of the Holy City, New Jerusalem:

"And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God . . . And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." (Rev 21:10, 14)

And they didn't have to wait long. The holy city New Jerusalem was resting on mount Sion at the time the book of Hebrews was written (notice "ye are come", rather than "ye will come".)

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant . . . " (Heb 12:22-24)

They also serve as judges over the twelve tribes of Israel:

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Mat 19:28)

That promise was fulfilled in the first resurrection:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them . . . and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Rev 20:4-6)

And they were, without a doubt, holy. John wrote of his election to be a king and priest.

"And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." (Rev 1:6)

Paul wrote of it, also, explaining that they--the chosen ones--were holy and without fault, having been among the first to trust Christ:

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will . . . Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself. . . That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." (Eph 1:4-5, 8-9, 12)

I believe they were part of the 144,000, for the reasons highlighted:

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads . . . These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." (Rev 14:1, 4-5)

The disciples truly were without fault, and they did follow the Lamb wherever he went. But, virgins? This is what Jesus said about that:

" . . . they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world [that age], and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." (Luke 20:35-36)

It appears all in the first resurrection (the firstfruits) were unmarried. There are no such restrictions for the second resurrection, rather, marriage is honourable in all (Heb 13:4.) Therefore, it becomes even more convincing that the 144,000 virgins, that were sealed as God's servants in Rev 7, were his disciples, the prophets, and many of the Saints from the early Church (the firstfruits of the Holy Spirit from the Day of Pentecost): all from the twelve tribes of Israel. That certainly gives new meaning to these passages:

"For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches." (Rom 11:16)

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of [heavenly mount] Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Rom 11:24-27)

"And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in [heavenly mount] Zion, and he that remaineth in [New] Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in [New] Jerusalem:" (Isa 4:3)

Remember this passage in relation to the promise of the Day of Pentecost?

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)" (John 7:38-39)

Compare that to these:

"For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes." (Rev 7:17)

"And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb." (Rev 22:1)

"O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters." (Jer 17:13)

Only a remnant were saved, as written; but they truly were God's chosen people, and are serving forever as the foundations of our Church, and as priests to the high priest, Jesus, in his holy temple on heavenly mount Sion. The rest? Moses explained what happened to them:

"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet [Jesus] shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people." (Acts 3:22-23, also Deut 18:18-19)

Philip