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To: CynicalBear

“That’s totally backwards from scripture.”

Nope. Faith leads to saving grace.

As I posted from another site:

In one important salvation text, the Apostle Paul uses prepositions to relate grace, faith, and salvation; “For by grace you have been saved through faith” (Ephesians 2:8). Salvation results from two things: grace and faith. So what is the role that each plays? The answer is found in the prepositions “by” and “through.”

The first preposition — “by” — concerns God’s grace; Paul says we are saved “by grace.” This prepositional phrase is constructed in the ancient language of the New Testament by use of the Greek dative case to signify agency. “By grace” means “by the agency of grace.”

This answers the question: Who saves us? God saves us by his grace! Paul has insisted that we “were dead” in our “trespasses and sins” (Eph. 2:1), so that we are not able to do anything to initiate our salvation. “God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved” (Eph. 2:4-5).

So what, then, is the role of faith? To answer this, Paul continues, “Through faith” (Eph. 2:8), that is, faith “in Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:7). The key preposition for faith is “through,” which refers to the means or instrumentality by which we are saved.

We are saved by God’s grace (grace is the ground and agency of our salvation) through faith, which is the means by which we receive the gift of salvation. Faith is viewed as that way by which God’s gracious gift of salvation is received — through our faith — the way water flows through a pipe. http://www.sharonherald.com/religion/x1208368437/By-grace-through-faith-or-why-prepositions-matter-in-Bible

I in no way deny the reality of prevenient grace. But if someone has no faith in Christ, then he wouldn’t even be coming to Him for forgiveness. Conversion presupposes faith. If you don’t believe in Christ, you won’t call on Him.


279 posted on 01/24/2014 2:09:53 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998

Catholics can keep trying to take credit all they want but it doesn’t make it so. The faith that saves comes from God who graciously gives us that faith.


286 posted on 01/24/2014 2:28:37 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: vladimir998
Nope. Faith leads to saving grace.

Not even close...Faith leads to salvation...Not grace...Grace is given before faith takes place...Grace is given to all men, not just those who get faith...

375 posted on 01/24/2014 8:21:41 PM PST by Iscool
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To: vladimir998
Faith leads to saving grace.

But isn't grace an unwarranted gift? Faith leading to grace...wouldn't that mean you somehow earned grace or purchased grace with faith?

388 posted on 01/24/2014 8:46:20 PM PST by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheelbarrow)
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